Help Me Figure Out What I Broke at the Track Today

[midnightdriver]

Yea, the #3 plug was DEFINITELY not like that during the tune, haha.

But the #8 plug has virtually no fouling at all (i.e. it was still firing most of the time, even though the gap was closed virtually all the way down), which would make me think that it could have been like that for a while. And the fact that changing the plugs cleared up the slight miss from after the tune means that something involving the plugs was not right after the tune. The other 6 plugs all look perfectly fine (they are only about 6 months and 8000 miles old), which has lead me to believe at least something was wrong with the #8 plug before yesterday.

I would get a retune if I was you and pull some timing. More timing doesn't always get more power.

 

[SRT Handz]

I cried a little inside when I sent you that FRPP Blower in the mail. I wanted it so bad on my car.

I bet people look under the hood of your car and have no idea its supercharged.

 

[d98gt]

Glad to see that it was a simple fix (knock on wood). My car had also ran fine after I put new plugs in after that so you should be good to go.

 

[SRT Handz]

How many miles were on the plugs?

 

[sneaky98gt]

I would get a retune if I was you and pull some timing. More timing doesn't always get more power.

Planning on it. Probably going to go ahead and throw a couple more pounds of boost at it while I'm there.

Yea, we played around with the meth on the dyno a lot. The best power pull was made with 18 degrees of timing. We made a pull with 20 degrees and one with 23 degrees. Both of them made less power than the 18 degree pull, with identical A/F ratios.

I cried a little inside when I sent you that FRPP Blower in the mail. I wanted it so bad on my car.

I bet people look under the hood of your car and have no idea its supercharged.

Haha, you'd be surprised how many folks have no clue it's under there.

Had 8000 miles on those plugs.

Glad to see that it was a simple fix (knock on wood). My car had also ran fine after I put new plugs in after that so you should be good to go.

Yea, I hope all the rest of it is ok. Sure seems to be so far, anyway.

 

[nickmckinney]

Good to see its not fubared

 

[Maxpowers]

Had 8000 miles on those plugs.

I am in no way an expert in the boost field, but I seem to recall people changing plugs before 5k on a boosted motor. I'll try and find where I saw that at...

 

[SRT Handz]

I am in no way an expert in the boost field, but I seem to recall people changing plugs before 5k on a boosted motor. I'll try and find where I saw that at...

I would like to know if this info is true also. please post link.

 

[sneaky98gt]

I am in no way an expert in the boost field, but I seem to recall people changing plugs before 5k on a boosted motor. I'll try and find where I saw that at...

I've always heard 10,000 miles, or one year. And that was with copper plugs (which is what the TR6s are).


And in other news, I'm not so sure everything is fine. I was out driving tonight (since the weather is so nice). I was making a long 2nd gear pull onto the free way. I have 2 degrees of timing pulled out and richened up a little, AND a 7 GPH meth nozzle in (the tune is for 3). I ran it like this all day yesterday, with several repeated long WOT pulls. There is no way it is detonating.

At about 4500 rpm, it missed real bad, almost like it hits a rev limiter. I have had problems with it doing that since I put the meth kit on, and I do not know why. In the past, I've hit it again right after it missed like that, and it just won't go above a certain RPM at WOT (usuall 4500-5000). I have to drive it for a while with the meth off, and then try it again. I really don't know what's causing that.

Anyway, tonight it just missed one time, and I immediately let out of it. When I eased back on the gas, it started missing and vibrating REAL bad, just like that the track on Sunday. Great. I took my exit which was right there, and by the time I got to the end of the ramp, it had cleared right up. Running just like it's supposed to. I made an easy, almost-WOT hit off the ramp, and it seemed to be running fine. What. The. Hell.

I'm headed home tomorrow morning, and I intend to pull the plugs AGAIN to see if any of them are damaged.

I really don't know. Either:
A. The tune is FUBARed.
B. The motor is FUBARed.
C. Methanol sucks.

Really not sure, and I'm this close to giving up on it.

 

[Winters98GT]

I really don't know. Either:
A. The tune is FUBARed.
B. The motor is FUBARed.
C. Methanol sucks.

Really not sure, and I'm this close to giving up on it.

Will, I would look at the tune and possibly motor. 500 passes is a ton.

I would also look at getting another tuner if they can't figure it out. Get the car running and then dyno tuned without the meth once it is running properly with the new pulley.

Once that is done, have your tuner start adding meth and tuning with it with each pull. They should adjust the amount of meth being delivered through the controller, not the meth nozzle size. Make sure you are getting what you paid for. My tuner might spend a full 3-4 days on a car just to ensure that the tune is spot on in every driving condition and WOT, while he might only need 2-4 hours on another car. Meth is not the issue here, but again, I would suggest a normal tune with no meth first, then a final tune with strait M1. Good luck

 

[sneaky98gt]

Will, I would look at the tune and possibly motor. 500 passes is a ton.

I would also look at getting another tuner if they can't figure it out. Get the car running and then dyno tuned without the meth once it is running properly with the new pulley.

Once that is done, have your tuner start adding meth and tuning with it with each pull. They should adjust the amount of meth being delivered through the controller, not the meth nozzle size. Make sure you are getting what you paid for. My tuner might spend a full 3-4 days on a car just to ensure that the tune is spot on in every driving condition and WOT, while he might only need 2-4 hours on another car. Meth is not the issue here, but again, I would suggest a normal tune with no meth first, then a final tune with strait M1. Good luck

I still want to know what is causing that big miss with the methanol. It first started doing it when I put the meth kit on, and I thought it was because I was running too large a nozzle and it was too rich. But now, the tune is more lean and the nozzle size is smaller. It's NOT going too rich. All the problems I've heard with meth are at low RPMs and bogging. This isn't at low RPM, and it isn't bogging at all. It is just like I hit a rev limiter.

I really don't have a clue what would be causing that problem, but I suspect that whatever it is, is the root cause (or at least a big part) of the problems I'm having right now.


And in other news, I'm almost positive now that the motor is FUBARed. Left out of my parking lot this morning to go to the bank, didn't make it 100 feet down the road (barely any throttle at all) before it started acting up again. Violent vibrations. Loud noises coming from under the hood. Yea....not good at all.

Pulled in the next parking lot. Wouldn't even turn over to begin with. Sat there for a few minutes, and it actually cranked up, but ran SUPER rough. Pretty much an exact repeat of what first happened at the track on Sunday. I did notice something today that I didn't notice on Sunday: when it was running so bad, it wasn't pulling much vacuum at all, maybe 6-8 inches, and the needle was bouncing back and forth rapidly seemingly at the same frequency of the loud noises coming from under the hood. I can't help but think that this means something really bad.....

BUT, let it sit there and run for a few minutes, and it seems to be back PERFECTLY normal. No misses, runs very smooth, no smoke, etc. WHAT THE HELL IS CAUSING THIS?!?!? Ugh, it's so damn frustrating.

Regardless, I'm going home today for fall break. I will be taking it VERY easy on the way home, haha, and I'll go from there.

If anyone has any suggestions on how to diagnose it (for as little money as possible), let 'em fly. I'm not coming back to school with the car until I know what's wrong with it.

 

[Stumbaugh]

I have a question. Everytime I have had a car detonate, it always burns the tip of the spark plugs off. I have never had one close the gap on a spark plug. Can someone explain how that happens?

Sneaky, try taking your tune back to stock, then reload it to see what it does. Check all your vacuum lines over. I have had my car do some pretty crazy stuff over having a loose vacuum line.

 

[trombonedemon]

Double post...

 

[trombonedemon]

I have a question. Everytime I have had a car detonate, it always burns the tip of the spark plugs off. I have never had one close the gap on a spark plug. Can someone explain how that happens?
.

It is very possible the piston hit the tip of the spark plug; i.e. when my spark plug blew out the cylinder-head, the tip of the spark plug was completely closed, but the surface was like the spark plug was put in the day before.

Them there spark plugs sit at an angle like the valves do, so, it is possible something up with the timing of the heads or maybe degreeing, if the piston is hitting the spark plug it maybe possibe the piston is hitting the valves as well.

The compression is high on the NPI's, am I correct? So something with a higher lift as far as cams is maybe a concern, the lift from the cams may be a little much!?!

My .02, I'm sorry for your engine woe's, definantly know a little about how to have one's engine purring one day and the next day, no purring at all.

 

[sneaky98gt]

I have a question. Everytime I have had a car detonate, it always burns the tip of the spark plugs off. I have never had one close the gap on a spark plug. Can someone explain how that happens?

Sneaky, try taking your tune back to stock, then reload it to see what it does. Check all your vacuum lines over. I have had my car do some pretty crazy stuff over having a loose vacuum line.

Well, I wondered about that, too, but I've read all over that it can close up the gap.

I've reloaded the tune several times now, and checked over everything under the hood. All seems to be fine. I'm 99.9% sure it's something internal.

I rented a compression tester this afternoon, and intend to check all the cylinders when I take the spark plugs out in a few hours.


Trombone, there's no way the piston could hit the spark plug tip. If it did, then something inside the motor is very, very broke. And if it was that broke, there's no way it would still be running right now.

The compression on the NPIs is 9.3:1, while the PIs are 9.7:1. The cams I'm running now have less lift than the PI cams I've ran for several years now. Cams/timing have nothing to do with it. Or, once again, if it does, something is VERY broken and I can't imagine it still running right now.

The cams were degreed in.


Right now, I'm betting that that #3 cylinder has a cracked/broken ring land. I'm thinking that it's just slowly coming apart, and each one of the little spells it's had was a piece that broke off and momentarily got stuck in one of the valves as it tried to get out of the cylinder. These pieces bouncing around in the cylinder would explain the spark plug gap closing up as well.

BUT, what gets me is that it's not smoking any at all. I would think that if the rings were damaged any bit at all, some oil would be getting past and I would be seeing some smoke. But through all this, I haven't seen one ounce of smoke.

We'll see what the compression test shows later this afternoon.

 

[trombonedemon]

Well, on the bright side, time for a complete forged engine rebuild?!?!

 

[sneaky98gt]

Well, on the bright side, time for a complete forged engine rebuild?!?!

Nah. Not gonna spend that kinda money on this car. Not to mention I couldn't take advantage of it with the blower I have (it's only good to maybe 450ish rwhp completely built out).


Finally got around to doing the compression test this evening. Motor is dead. Cylinders 5 and 6 showed 145-150 psi. Cylinder 3 was 0 psi. Didn't even bother checking the others.

So, the current plan is to get a complete PI motor and swap everything over. The blower will go on with minimal mods, and the cams might if they are retarded some amount (Mr. McKinney, you are about to have a PM about this). Slightly smaller pulley for around 9 psi of boost, and a new safer tune (by a different tuner...). Should get me closer to my 400 rwhp goal than the NPI motor I've tried on so far. I've already found a couple of nice PI motors with less than 50,000 miles for $700-$800. I've heard of them going for less than that on occasion, but I think that's a pretty fair deal.

Anyways, I'll keep everyone updated as I get it put back together.

 

[midnightdriver]

Nah. Not gonna spend that kinda money on this car. Not to mention I couldn't take advantage of it with the blower I have (it's only good to maybe 450ish rwhp completely built out).


Finally got around to doing the compression test this evening. Motor is dead. Cylinders 5 and 6 showed 145-150 psi. Cylinder 3 was 0 psi. Didn't even bother checking the others.

So, the current plan is to get a complete PI motor and swap everything over. The blower will go on with minimal mods, and the cams might if they are retarded some amount (Mr. McKinney, you are about to have a PM about this). Slightly smaller pulley for around 9 psi of boost, and a new safer tune (by a different tuner...). Should get me closer to my 400 rwhp goal than the NPI motor I've tried on so far. I've already found a couple of nice PI motors with less than 50,000 miles for $700-$800. I've heard of them going for less than that on occasion, but I think that's a pretty fair deal.

Anyways, I'll keep everyone updated as I get it put back together.

Thats a bummer, and look forward to seeing the car rise back up with the new motor. How will your blower on PI heads will work though I though the NPI and PI have different ports?

If you don't mind sharing, who was the tuner?

 

[nickmckinney]

Either retard the cams 2 degrees back to 110 ICL with a stock PI head, or better yet pull the heads, get a set of modified intake valves, and run them at the 108ICL. Stock PI springs will be fine. I believe the PI intake gaskets will work on that combo, need to check the water crossover shape in the intake/blower itself.

So it ran faster even with a broken piston.................

 

[trombonedemon]

Nah. Not gonna spend that kinda money on this car. Not to mention I couldn't take advantage of it with the blower I have (it's only good to maybe 450ish rwhp completely built out).


Finally got around to doing the compression test this evening. Motor is dead. Cylinders 5 and 6 showed 145-150 psi. Cylinder 3 was 0 psi. Didn't even bother checking the others.

So, the current plan is to get a complete PI motor and swap everything over. The blower will go on with minimal mods, and the cams might if they are retarded some amount (Mr. McKinney, you are about to have a PM about this). Slightly smaller pulley for around 9 psi of boost, and a new safer tune (by a different tuner...). Should get me closer to my 400 rwhp goal than the NPI motor I've tried on so far. I've already found a couple of nice PI motors with less than 50,000 miles for $700-$800. I've heard of them going for less than that on occasion, but I think that's a pretty fair deal.

Anyways, I'll keep everyone updated as I get it put back together.

amnit:

May I suggest a new tuner, Piedmont Customs Motorsports, 10 minutes from NC State. 5 minutes from where I am located, without traffic. They are on Facebook. Give them a ring. Did my valve-job, them guys are "sick" with Mustangs. Trust me.