Help With Motor Buying.

Discussion in '1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk-' started by 85rkyboby, Jun 19, 2014.

  1. 85rkyboby

    85rkyboby Active Member

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    I figure since most places the guys on here are ordering from, want an arm & a leg for a good motor. I will go with a local machine shop that my local mechanic suggested. Thanks, for throwing more options out. That's my main concern is weighing out all my options.

    While I can't contest to it being a great motor or not, since I haven't owned or know anyone running one. I would ask for what you get, would you get the FRRP 306 or spend the extra $800 for a specific compression, aftermarket aluminum headed, custom grind camshaft, custom built motor?

    I don't want to factor in the EFI just yet, because that will involve intake (lower/upper), rails, injectors, filter, electric high pressure fuel pump (in-tank/in-line, sump), efi tank (if in-tank), harness, computer, etc. That will have to come at a later time. Right now the benefits of the EFI don't out weight the cost. Sure, if I piece parts together over time I can get that stuff cheap, whatever isn't NIB. Sorry if I'm ranting it's late. There is a gt40 motor from oil pan to air filter w/ headers for around $1200 on ebay.
     
    #101
  2. 85rkyboby

    85rkyboby Active Member

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    Only way I'll factor EFI in with this build is if I can get all the EFI stuff when I buy the motor. If not, the motor I get would have to be cheap enough to still have funds for aluminum heads as well as EFI stuff.
     
    #102
  3. tamadrummer88

    tamadrummer88 Active Member

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    Most long block crate motors already come with aluminum heads.
     
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  4. 2000xp8

    2000xp8 Mustang Master

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    Me personally, i like the ford racing engines. They are usually readily available and are very reliable.
    Little bit expensive, but still good engines. I know quite a few people with them, a fair amount with vortech s trims, that make close to 500rwhp (some over)

    Also rumor used to have it, that they were actually built by chp.
     
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  5. revhead347

    revhead347 I have face herpes.

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    I think the EFI conversion would be very time consuming. It's not easy to do, and if you are starting with a non efi car, very expensive. The most important feature with efi is ignition timing control, but there are ways to do that with aftermarket ignition boxes without having to do electronic fuel control as well.

    Kurt
     
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  6. 85rkyboby

    85rkyboby Active Member

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    All the ones I've seen are cast iron, the few that were aluminum are just gt40. I'm talking aftermarket aluminum as in the Victor Jr.'s or Performer RPM, I think even the Dart 1 heads are in my budget range. Sorry I should have been clearer.
    Well now I'm hearing better reviews. Hmm I wonder if I can find out more about who's building them.
    That was my assumption as well, that EFI will have to come later.
     
    #106
  7. 85rkyboby

    85rkyboby Active Member

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    If I go the blower route which heads would you suggest, Vitcor Jr.'s(210cc), Performer RPM(170cc/190cc), Dart Pro 1 Aluminums(195cc)? I know a little on the performance of the Eddy's but not so much on the dart. My mechanic says he hasn't run the Dart's yet but they look really good. He's got some crazy fast nova.
     
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  8. tamadrummer88

    tamadrummer88 Active Member

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    Trick Flow TW 170's are the best head for the money. Flows well out of the box and allows more room to grow.
     
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  9. 85rkyboby

    85rkyboby Active Member

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    Thanks.
     
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  10. revhead347

    revhead347 I have face herpes.

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    +1. Honestly the TF170cc heads are the best out of the box. Well, really the best all together. I just wanted to clarify; I prefer the Trick flow line up, but I wouldn't in anyway bad mouth the Edelbrock lineup because they are great heads too.

    Kurt
     
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  11. 85rkyboby

    85rkyboby Active Member

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    Alright, thanks. I get what you mean. Trick Flow twisted wedge pistons are required for use with these heads to allow for piston to valve clearance with camshafts over .550 in. lift. I'd have to have Tony figure the price difference for those TW Pistons over the Eagle ones... I'll see and report back. I've been trying to find someone that ran a Weiand 174 on a car that was street driven and been caught in traffic. Still looking, most leads are a dead end. Just need to know if it's possible to keep the heat soak down, if stuck in traffic? I emailed Stiegemeier about the porting job the other day. They never got back to me, so I emailed them again today. I figure I'll call tomorow if they don't email me by noon.
     
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  12. revhead347

    revhead347 I have face herpes.

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    That's actually a bit misleading. The Trick Flow heads give you more valve clearance, because the exhaust valve is a different angle from the intake. Hence, the "twisted wedge." You can actually run a bigger cam with the Trick Flow head than you can with the Eddy head without having to fly cut the piston.

    Kurt
     
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  13. tamadrummer88

    tamadrummer88 Active Member

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    The thing is that you probably won't find someone using that sort of blower on these cars because, well, most people are either running carbs NA or EFI with a blower.

    In all honesty, you probably would be better off using a simple H/C/I combo on that stock 302 and converting to EFI. You could piece all that together used and still save a grand or so.
     
    #113
  14. 85rkyboby

    85rkyboby Active Member

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    Yea, I agree. I found a few people running them with 8.1:1 to 8.5:1 CR as a daily driver. No problems driving 130 miles both ways. Etc. Etc.
    I think I'll just go H-C-I. I do like the idea of a bigger head so I can really spin it. I'm sure forged would be better but is there any reason to forge the rods or crank? A bottle might be used if I decide to buy some slicks ;). Do they still make a Mickey tire that was damn near a drag radial but had a dot # stamped on the side?
     
    #114
  15. 85rkyboby

    85rkyboby Active Member

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    Alright, is there any difference between the TW 170cc, 190cc, 205cc, & 206cc heads? I understand they perform different, but is there any of these that are bad or have had problems? I know we talked about spinning the motor to 6,000rpm, is there any reason to spin past that? Anything that should be upgraded to spin at those revs? Which size head would you pick?
     
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  16. A5literMan

    A5literMan Mustang Master

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    No need for forged rods/crank. The block will break before your rotating assembly will. MT does make some drag radials that are dot approved and will hook on the track. If you decide to keep the 174 you should just run a "regular" flattop 9:1cr piston with a bigger cc head if you want to keep the cr down a little. I wouldn't spend the money to convert back to EFI. Put that extra money into heads/power adder/etc. A good h/c/i combo should get you into the 325-350 rwhp range. Easily capable of Dailey operation and running solid numbers at the track. I personally would sell the blower and run the nitrous. I've seen some 302's in track cars that run into the 10's(nitrous). So power production isn't/shouldn't be a problem. It would be unique to see an old fashioned weiland under the hood. I just don't know how well it would work when it gets hot.
     
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  17. A5literMan

    A5literMan Mustang Master

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    Again 190-205cc tfs head FTW! Use a good balancer,proper machine work,valvetrain,and ignition and you can spin it to 6500 if you want.
     
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  18. 85rkyboby

    85rkyboby Active Member

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    Do you know the model of those tires? They'll hook with nitrous?
    I want to run the blower. Especially since I already have it, but I hate to spend all this money on something I can't drive. I think I will just wait to get another motor and experiment when I have an extra vehicle. The heat soak to me is the biggest issue, especially bumper to bumper traffic with 90*+ temps. I was looking at the Novi 1500 but they seem way expensive for what it is...
    Really that big of numbers, hmmm... I have been under the impression I'd be closer to 265-285RWHP. How much would I gain by going up in compression, say 10.5:1?
     
    #118
  19. A5literMan

    A5literMan Mustang Master

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    ET streets(tires). A 306 with around 10:1cr,tfs 205's,good hyd roller,Vic jr and 650carb,1 3/4" long tubes is def in the 325-350rwhp range. Throw a single stage 150 shot at it and with some et streets,descent suspension,good driving and your car should be able to run low 12's -mid 11's with nitrous.

    The regular EFI tfs 170cc kit makes around 285-300rwhp. Carb cars tend to make a few more hp. If you jump up to a properly set up build with bigger heads,cam,single plan intake you'll easily add 25-50rwhp.
     
    #119
  20. 85rkyboby

    85rkyboby Active Member

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    What's the most compression to be ran on pump gas?
     
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