Help With Motor Buying.

[A5literMan]

With alum heads and proper cam...some have gone as high as 12:1 believe it or not! Not saying you should do that. 10-10.5:1 is more than acceptable on 93 oct. Obviously not with a blower but n/a - nitrous. Remember that to maximize the power potential you will have to run a fairly aggressive cam. So drivability may slightly suffer. You don't have to get carried away with this to the point of vacuum issues for the brakes etc. Talk to your cam expert. Run the tfs heads(the new 11r design) in 190-205cc with a 56cc chamber and the proper flattops. It will run real well and you'll have heads capable of "growing" if you jump up to a bigger engine later. The 205 heads are capable of supporting 650hp right out of the box(n/a)-1000 with forced induction.

 

[85rkyboby]

With alum heads and proper cam...some have gone as high as 12:1 believe it or not! Not saying you should do that. 10-10.5:1 is more than acceptable on 93 oct. Obviously not with a blower but n/a - nitrous. Remember that to maximize the power potential you will have to run a fairly aggressive cam. So drivability may slightly suffer. You don't have to get carried away with this to the point of vacuum issues for the brakes etc. Talk to your cam expert. Run the tfs heads(the new 11r design) in 190-205cc with a 56cc chamber and the proper flattops. It will run real well and you'll have heads capable of "growing" if you jump up to a bigger engine later. The 205 heads are capable of supporting 650hp right out of the box(n/a)-1000 with forced induction.

Funny you say that! Originally when the engine builder quoted me on the engine and suggested what I should do to it he suggested 12:1 CR. I thought it should be closer to 11:1, my mechanic thought the same. He seems to be real good friends with a guy Eric? that works at Eason? somewhere in Acworth, GA. Any questions I could ask to him to see if he's any good or just a blatant idiot?
Driveability wise, I don't mind a challenge. Room to grow is always a great thing, not much in this game that works well for two different setups. Any reason to the 56cc > the 66cc? I think I might have to stretch my budget some for those 205 TW11R's. I sure do like what I'm hearing though.

 

[revhead347]

On your budget, I would go with the TF170cc heads. Buying bigger heads than that will start to add nickel and dime costs that add up without any significant gains because you don't have the displacement or blower, or carb, headers etc to support the flow of the bigger heads. That's the head that's in your combo price range. There is no reason to rev the engine above 6000 rpms. Anything above 6500rpms really isn't recommended with a stock block. But it's not a factor in your engine. Stock rods and crank will be fine. I would say go with a forged piston just because of the boost. There is no specific compression ratio for pump gas. The limit of the fuel's volatility is more complicated and has a lot more to do with dynamic compression than static compression.

Kurt

 

[85rkyboby]

Alright. Sounds good. I guess I'll let the builder decide on compression.

 

[A5literMan]

Funny you say that! Originally when the engine builder quoted me on the engine and suggested what I should do to it he suggested 12:1 CR. I thought it should be closer to 11:1, my mechanic thought the same. He seems to be real good friends with a guy Eric? that works at Eason? somewhere in Acworth, GA. Any questions I could ask to him to see if he's any good or just a blatant idiot?
Driveability wise, I don't mind a challenge. Room to grow is always a great thing, not much in this game that works well for two different setups. Any reason to the 56cc > the 66cc? I think I might have to stretch my budget some for those 205 TW11R's. I sure do like what I'm hearing though.

Smaller chamber for more compression-n/a(nitrous) or bigger chamber for lower compression(boost). While I agree with Kurt on the 170cc head being enough for a modest 306 I would buy the 205cc head. It's a better design,higher quality item that will be capable of handling future upgrades. I say spend the extra now instead of having to really work over or selling the 170 heads in the future.

 

[A5literMan]

For an example NicwoaC built a 302 with cnc ported 205 tfs heads,tfs r intake,90mm throttlebody,and a mild hyd roller. Daily driven making 330rwhp. You could basically copy that build model(except carb vs EFI) If you ever add cubic inches or a centrifugal blower(dart block) etc you'll want the bigger heads. If you truly don't think you'll ever "grow" from this build the 170 heads will be enough for your present build. Just an fyi

 

[85rkyboby]

For an example NicwoaC built a 302 with cnc ported 205 tfs heads,tfs r intake,90mm throttlebody,and a mild hyd roller. Daily driven making 330rwhp. You could basically copy that build model(except carb vs EFI) If you ever add cubic inches or a centrifugal blower(dart block) etc you'll want the bigger heads. If you truly don't think you'll ever "grow" from this build the 170 heads will be enough for your present build. Just an fyi

Thanks @A5literMan. I def. will be upgrading later down the road. This is the first motor I have ever had built but def won't be the last. I plan on building my whole motor next time around, so I'm sure I'll save some money there. I know how to gap rings, check bearing clearances, etc... but I'm still learning. Hopefully next time around I'll have everything down pat. I would love to do a 363 with blower or turbo in the future. I think I'm going to go N/A on this build. While I did find some good info and people's setups that run those blowers on the street daily/long trips. I think I should pass for now as I would have to buy back another boost carb, timing retard, etc.. Those things add up quick. I think a nitrous setup and some slicks/cheater tires for the track would be better. Sound good or am I taking the easy/safe way out?

 

[A5literMan]

It's what I did. So I agree with you. It'll give you plenty for the street and be fun learning expierience. Have fun! Learn and then go ape sh it! If that's what you decide to do

 

[85rkyboby]

@2000xp8 I never heard back from Stiegemeier. I called and the phone rang for about 2 minutes.

 

[2000xp8]

@2000xp8 I never heard back from Stiegemeier. I called and the phone rang for about 2 minutes.

I had that happen a couple times too.
I call them in beginning of week.

All the 03 cobra and lightning guys use them

 

[85rkyboby]

I had that happen a couple times too.
I call them in beginning of week.

All the 03 cobra and lightning guys use them

Alright thanks, just wanted to make sure they're still in business. I'll keep trying.

 

[85rkyboby]

@NIKwoaC Could you give me a brief description you're build? I need something to compare to what this builder is telling me. He's got me a little stumped.

 

[tamadrummer88]

I think the best bet for you at this point is to just keep it simple. Put a good set of heads, a nice cam and intake on the current 302 you have now and call it a day. Keep it carbed or convert to fuel injection if you want.

 

[85rkyboby]

I think the best bet for you at this point is to just keep it simple. Put a good set of heads, a nice cam and intake on the current 302 you have now and call it a day. Keep it carbed or convert to fuel injection if you want.

Simple? Current 302? Convert to EFI isn't "simple".

 

[tamadrummer88]

Simple? Current 302? Convert to EFI isn't "simple".

I mustve missed something. You don't have a current motor? Or are you planning one out?

Sorry if i seem lost lol

 

[85rkyboby]

I mustve missed something. You don't have a current motor? Or are you planning one out?

Sorry if i seem lost lol

I have one but it's an old 80's full size ford motor. I'm looking to have a roller motor built or buy a long block. I am trying to decide between N/A with a bottle or a blower motor (I have a blower laying around). The motor is going to be im DD. So I was worried about it getting super hot in traffic, if I go blower. I was trying to decide on the brand and size of heads, I'm looking at the Victor Jr.'s (210cc).

 

[2000xp8]

The victors are too much for a 302. Probably be horrible to drive in traffic. Could possibly make more up top, but what you give up down low won't be worth it.
Those are 347 heads.

As for heat, just buy a massive radiator. A mod always worth the money.

I still stand by my original theory, explorer 5.0, swap the cam heads, add your SC and carb and go.

Then after it's all in and runs right, consider EFI. An engine and EFI swap at the same time may not be the best idea if it isn't something you have done before.

 

[85rkyboby]

The victors are too much for a 302. Probably be horrible to drive in traffic. Could possibly make more up top, but what you give up down low won't be worth it.
Those are 347 heads.

As for heat, just buy a massive radiator. A mod always worth the money.

I still stand by my original theory, explorer 5.0, swap the cam heads, add your SC and carb and go.

Then after it's all in and runs right, consider EFI. An engine and EFI swap at the same time may not be the best idea if it isn't something you have done before.

Those heads won't be to big if I use that blower though, right?

 

[85rkyboby]

I upgraded my Radiator while building the car. I purchased a Griffin 27.5"W x 19"H x 3"T. Is this a suitable radiator?

 

[2000xp8]

Honestly, i don't know how the engine will react to that SC and a larger head.

I was more or less taught that you use the right parts for you now, not for an unknown future.
Those heads appear to be about $1600 a set. Considering they are best for a stroker and you are building a 302 or 306 me personally, i wouldn't use them. It's almost like you have haven't even built this engine and you are already planning another.

I'd save $500 and buy the TW's. Then if you need them larger you send them to TEA for CNC'ing.

That radiator should be fine, i wouldn't worry about heat. The supercharger may heat up the intake air and the SC itself, but that doesn't necessarily mean the engine is going to run hot.
Heat soak even happens to intercooled Roots or twin screw blowers, so it's nothing out of the ordinary on a pushrod roots blower.