Electrical Help With Wireing, Diagnose Run Problem

thanks for the help. I talked to my mechanic, big daddy from big daddy performance. he installed the motor 6 years ago.

he had solved the problem by telling me to get a second dizzy. the only problem i having is timing marks. I don't think i am way off the mark, so i did it again today to be safe. the thing is running very rich headers get hot at flanges, plugs wet, and lots of sooty carbon..

it may have been a vacuum line i had spotted that was broken. there may be something else i can check?

big daddy thinks its not timed right. but im sure there are other causes for the same symptoms?
glowing headers. getting very hot quickly.

he said no not a stuck valve. its mechanical. not the fuel pressure. A wiring issue with the msd ignition.



so to me it was a simple 4 wire instal including 2 wires off the battery. i did not instal any of the msd wires to the solenoid. only to the harness provided.

thanks again..
 
  • Sponsors (?)


The harmonic balancer may have spun. There is a rubber liner that connects the outer hub with the inner hub. Sometimes it shears and the outer hub moves off it's alignment with the balancer keyway. That moves the timing marks way out of place from where they are supposed to be. Most of the time a spun balancer is not hard to spot - it wobbles or rattles when the engine is running, and the engine may tend to vibrate.

The balancer keyway cannot be seen with the balancer is place. When the balancer is removed for inspection, it aligns with the 3rd mark from the end of the BTC scale.
 
The harmonic balancer may have spun. There is a rubber liner that connects the outer hub with the inner hub. Sometimes it shears and the outer hub moves off it's alignment with the balancer keyway. That moves the timing marks way out of place from where they are supposed to be. Most of the time a spun balancer is not hard to spot - it wobbles or rattles when the engine is running, and the engine may tend to vibrate.

The balancer keyway cannot be seen with the balancer is place. When the balancer is removed for inspection, it aligns with the 3rd mark from the end of the BTC scale.


it is an ati super damper, so no it could not have spun. when i put the timing light on it i see the number 31 on a sticker, so 13 before tdc i think is slightly to the right of that mark about an inch or so.. it seems to run there. but still have no throttle response. tonight i took off air filter to clean mass air sensor also. I tried running the car by deleting the mass air but it would not start. could the gas having additives cause my problem or an o2 sensor?

I also changed idle air sensor. but i could not get a voltage off the green and black wires above .6 volts. so i left that for now. there was no improvement after i changed it. when i pushed the butterfly to wot on the throttle body 4.5 volts did not read. it didn't even move from the .5 or so volts that it did read when i tried to set it..
 
The TPS problem you are describing is due to a loss of VRef +5 volts to the TPS. This could be a broken wire in the engine fuel injector harness or bad connection at the TPS connector socket.

Setting the TPS at .98 volt is a Bozo Internet Myth. When the computer powers up and initializes the TPS sensor, whatever it reads is the zero starting point for it. In other words your .98 volt becomes 0 volts and the computer watches for increases in voltage from that point upward.

Setting the TPS: you'll need a good Digital Voltmeter (DVM) to do the job. Set the TPS voltage at .5- 1.1 range. Because of the variables involved with the tolerances of both computer and DVM, I would shoot for somewhere between .6 and 1.0 volts. Unless you have a Fluke or other high grade DVM, the second digit past the decimal point on cheap DVM’s is probably fantasy. Since the computer zeros out the TPS voltage every time it powers up, playing with the settings isn't an effective aid to performance or drivability. The main purpose of checking the TPS is to make sure it isn't way out of range and causing problems.


Wire colors & functions:
Orange/white = 5 volt VREF from the computer
Dark Green/lt green = TPS output to computer
Black/white = Signal ground from computer

TPS troubleshooting steps:
1.) Use the Orange/white & Black white wires to verify the TPS has the correct 5 volts source from the computer.
2.) Use the Dark Green/lt green & Black/white wires to set the TPS base voltage. Try this... All you need is less than 1.0 volt at idle and more than 4.25 at Wide Open Throttle (WOT). You'll need a voltmeter with a 1 or 3 volt low scale to do the job.

The Orange/White wire is the VREF 5 volts from the computer. You use the Dark Green/Lt green wire (TPS signal) and the Black/White wire (TPS ground) to set the TPS. Use a pair of safety pins to probe the TPS connector from the rear of the connector. You may find it a little difficult to make a good connection, but keep trying. Put the safety pins in the Dark Green/Lt green wire and Black/White wire. Make sure the ignition switch is in the Run position but the engine isn't running. Set the voltmeter on the 2 volt range if it doesn’t auto range.

Here’s a TPS tip I got from NoGo50

When you installed the sensor make sure you place it on the peg right and then tighten it down properly. Loosen the back screw a tiny bit so the sensor can pivot and loosen the front screw enough so you can move it just a little in very small increments. I wouldn’t try to adjust it using marks.

(copied from MustangMax, Glendale AZ)

A.) Always adjust the TPS and Idle with the engine at operating temp. Dive it around for a bit if you can and get it nice and warm.

B.) When you probe the leads of the TPS, do not use an engine ground, put the ground probe into the lead of the TPS. You should be connecting both meter probes to the TPS and not one to the TPS and the other to ground.

C.) Always reset the computer whenever you adjust the TPS or clean/change any sensors. I just pull the battery lead for 10 minutes.

D.) The key is to adjust the TPS voltage and reset the computer whenever the idle screw is changed.

The TPS is a variable resistor, must like the volume control knob on a cheap radio. We have all heard them crackle and pop when the volume is adjusted. The TPS sensor has the same problem: wear on the resistor element makes places that create electrical noise. This electrical noise confuses the computer, because it expects to see a smooth increase or decrease as the throttle is opened or closed.

TPS testing: most of the time a failed TPS will set code 23 or 63, but not always. Use either an analog meter or a DVM with an analog bar graph and connect the leads as instructed above. Turn the ignition switch to the Run position, but do not start the engine. Note the voltage with the throttle closed. Slowly open the throttle and watch the voltage increase smoothly, slowly close the throttle and watch the voltage decrease smoothly. If the voltage jumps around and isn’t smooth, the TPS has some worn places in the resistor element. When the throttle is closed, make sure that the voltage is the same as what it was when you started. If it varies more than 10%, the TPS is suspect of being worn in the idle range of its travel.

TPS will not go below 1 volt
Engine mounted sensor circuit: Check the resistance between the black/white wire on the TPS and battery ground. It should be less than 1.5 ohms. Higher resistance than 1.5 ohms indicates a problem with the 10 pin connector, computer or the splice inside the main harness where the wire from the 10 pin connectors joins the rest of the black/white wire.

attachment.php


See the graphic for the location of the 10 pin connectors:
Diagram courtesy of Tmoss & Stang&2birds

TPS_IAB_Pic.jpg


See the graphic for the 10 pin connector circuit layout.
salt-pepper-10-pin-connectors-65-jpg.68512


Unplug the white 10 pin connector to do some resistance testing. It is good time to clean the connector pins and examine the connector for corrosion, broken wire or other damage. See http://oldfuelinjection.com/?p=85 for help in this department.

If the resistance on the TPS Black/White wire and pin 1 of the white engine fuel injector harness 10 pin connector, is more than 1.0 ohm, you have bad connection or broken wiring. Repeat the test using the pin 1 of the white body side 10 pin connector and battery ground. You should have less that 1.5 ohm. More than that is a damaged signal ground inside the computer or bad connections or wiring.
 
hi hi, i did some more testing today. i removed air filter, cleaned mass air. i could have another problem there. the motor runs without it, and the orange glow on the headers is gone. had it running for a half hour or more. what i noticed if i open the butterfly manually the fuel pressure goes up . it should stay at 42 lb?
as it climes the engine will stall. so still no throttle response. I must have the timing in a better position now, it sounds good, idles well.

oils sending unit is shot. no big deal. throttle body is accufab 75 mm race throttle it gets very hot. it has egr still on the afr heads. could this be a problem? egr valve looked pretty bad. the throttle will suck air, but fuel pressure climes above 42lbs when opened slightly. about 48 lb before it will stall. motor doesn't gain rpm and stalls.

I am thinking wires may be the problem, but all seems fine except for the rev issue.
 
Since this post is getting rather long, posting or reposting any codes you got would be a big help.

Check fuel pressure:
The local auto parts store may rent or loan a fuel pressure test gauge if you don't have one.
Disconnect the vacuum line from the fuel pressure regulator. Check it for evidence of fuel present in the line by removing it and blowing air through it. If you find fuel, the fuel pressure regulator has failed. Reinstall the line, cap the open end and stow it out of the way.
Connect fuel pressure test gauge to Schrader Connect fuel pressure test gauge to Schrader port located just behind the alternator.
Turn the ignition switch on & start the engine. Observe the pressure : you should see 37-41 PSI at idle.
Turn the ignition off, reconnect the vacuum line and disconnect the fuel pressure test gauge. Watch out for squirting gas when you do this.
 
Since this post is getting rather long, posting or reposting any codes you got would be a big help.

Check fuel pressure:
The local auto parts store may rent or loan a fuel pressure test gauge if you don't have one.
Disconnect the vacuum line from the fuel pressure regulator. Check it for evidence of fuel present in the line by removing it and blowing air through it. If you find fuel, the fuel pressure regulator has failed. Reinstall the line, cap the open end and stow it out of the way.
Connect fuel pressure test gauge to Schrader Connect fuel pressure test gauge to Schrader port located just behind the alternator.
Turn the ignition switch on & start the engine. Observe the pressure : you should see 37-41 PSI at idle.
Turn the ignition off, reconnect the vacuum line and disconnect the fuel pressure test gauge. Watch out for squirting gas when you do this.


HI hi, wo its up and running, thank you so much..

i will tell u what i had done. i followed your instructions, and it proved very good. last night before bed i climbed under the fender well to remove my massive air filter at the end of a 90MM power pipe by Anderson ford. What a job just to access it. sprayed and cleaned mass air unit, and k&n air filter. when to the car in the morning to find out what would happen next. looking at it i had thought the tpi needed a few taps with a good wrench. After i observed the fuel pressure rise when the butterfly opened i looked for information. i found a video on tube on how to test a bad fuel pump. I discovered that a lean or rich condition may occur under certain conditions. something to do with the return line perhaps. I disconnected the fuel pressure tester from the adjustable fuel pressure regulator. then i saw the oil coming from the sending unit cleaned it with spray cleaner. then i tested the mas air meter i hooked it up and there was not much of a change. so i inspected the fuel pressure regulator like you said. and it seemed ok. but perhaps the vacuum line that connects there was slightly kinked. I think it needs to be replace. It was hardly noticeable, but its hard to say what is the true cure. my money on mass air was dirty, and vacuum a little soft. Not sure if it was a return line or not. caused fuel pressure rise.

the 331 stroked is alive, and well. working like a champ.

i thank you for your time, and valuable info.. cheers.,.
ps the new digital msd ignition will be finding a new home real soon. (under my hood) ))