Hey, new guy needing some guidance

[dstang01]

Hey all

Im a young car enthusiast from Vancouver Canada. I love camaros, and Ive been a long time member on many camaro boards (sure you guys loove to hear that ) I had my heart set on buying a black lt1 z28 (93-97) and have set aside alot of cash to pay for the initial cost as well as insurance and gas. But.. due to the insane rising cost of fuel here (1.20 a LITRE for REGULAR.. so something like 4.54 a US gallon) and the fact that camaros guzzle premium gas, a young driver like me would go broke quickly..

So.. I started looking at alternatives. Rice rockets dont appeal to me at all, and im not fond of v6 versions of camaros/trans ams/mustangs. So I started looking at gt's, something I havent really thought about... the ford sound is a nice one as well Theres no way I could afford a 99+, so I started looking at the sn95's. The more I came across them, the more they grew on me! Then I saw a clean black one with smoked lights, its amazing how aggressive they can look with that little mod. What I didnt like about the sn95's was that they had such a sweet agressive exhaust note but the front end didnt match it. So now Im interested in the sn95's, Im sure they are as thirsty as a camaro, but at least its not premium fuel they guzzle..

The only thing that bothers me about these cars is that they are somewhat weak in stock form. Im sure the numbers will be fine for a first 'high' performance car, and as long as they have some potential for later on, I think it would be a great car for me. I wanted to find out some more information on the potential of these cars, and also perticulars like what years are the best (and 5.0 vs 4.6) so I came across this site and looked around a little. It looks like you all have awesome, clean mustangs so I decided to join. I hope Ill learn alot from you guys and hopefully be driving a stang in the future

The main question I have to start with is about engine type. Do you think a 5.0 or 4.6 sn95 is better for me? I posted this on 5.0 and 4.6 to get both opinions. Remember I need it to be reliable, cheap to mod/responds well to mods, get somewhat decent gas mileage, and have a good powerband for fun street driving. My plan would be to step up to a kenne bell blower down the road (or some kind of charger), so what engine stands up to boost better in stock form? I know both engines can be made fast and I dont want to start a heated arguement, but for my situation some honest opinions would be cool. In your opinion, which engine is more enjoyable to drive on the street? (if you have driven both) What are the power/torque bands like on each engine and how do they compare? Im guessing the 5.0 is torquier than the 4.6, but im sure theres other things about these engines I dont know. I also bet the 4.6 has better mileage because its a more modern design, but if there close then it doesnt really matter. Because the output of the late 5.0 and early 4.6 is similar, which one 'feels' faster? I dont know alot about the two and I want to hear some opinions to find out which one would be a better choice for me. Thanks

 

[Skidzz]

The 5.0 FEELS a little faster to me because of the low-end torque. I chose the 4.6 because I do think it is a more efficient motor, and the PI swap is cheap and will get you up to par with the 99-04's and LT1 camaros. You won't want to do the FULL PI swap though, because it will force you to run higher octane. I think a 94-95 5.0 would fit your needs a little better than a 4.6. I really like the 94-95's, but they are hard to come by in good condition.

 

[Flghtmstr1]

I agree with Skidzz. When I was looking for a Mustang, I started my search with the 1994-1995s because the 5.0 has such a huge aftermarket. I kinda gave up on them, though, because I couldn't find one that met my (admittedly high) standards. A couple months later, I stumbled across a 2001 GT for a great price and promptly put it in my garage In BONE stock form, the 5.0 feels faster than the 1996-1998 4.6s. Those Non-PI motors feel weak and don't respond to bolt-ons nearly as well as the 5.0. Again agreeing with Skidzz, the 5.0 seems like the better choice for you.

 

[BurningRubber]

Sounds like you have a pretty good idea of what you want in a car.

The 99+ Mustangs are still the SN-95 platform, just so you know.

As far as the older ones being weaker performance wise, that is true to an extent.

If it were me choosing between a 94-95 5.0 GT and a 96-98 GT, I would go 5.0 all the way.

The 96-98 GT's are the non pi (pi = power improvment) headed GT's, and they are fun to drive, but not as fast as a 99+. They benefit very well from a PI cam and intake swap, or a PI heads cam and intake swap. But, then you are only at the 260-270 hp level, and not at the wheels. From there bolt ons and forced induction are your only choice.

The 94-95 GT's make around the same HP, but make a bit more tourqe than the 4.6's of close years. The 5.0 is also cheaper to modify, and a heads/cam/intake swap is easily 300 rear wheel horsepower (or more) on a 5.0... then you can still go forced induction, and bolt ons... and you can build a shortblock for a 5.0 for less than a 4.6 as well. Parts are cheaper for the 5.0 and its easier to work on a 5.0 when it comes to tearing into the engine.

Stock for stock, having driven both the 5.0 feels faster for sure. It has alot of tourqe right off idle untill redline. The non-pi 4.6's need to be revved out a bit before the tourqe kicks in.

Gas mileage is close between the two, but the 4.6 would probaly edge the 5.0 out.

But ive driven both, and the 5.0 is the platform that I would want to start with. I actually could have nabbed a mint condition 95 GT with low miles, but I was dumb and passed it up... but im happy with my 2000.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

It is impossible to say which is better 5.0 vs 4.6

Both engines have their advantages

 

[DropTopPony]

if your on a budget but want more options in the future go with a 94-95 5.0's....just way more aftermarket support available.

 

[dstang01]

Thanks alot guys for the replys, I was leaning towards the 5.0 as well. Another option is to just shell out for the premium fuel a 94-97 lt1 camaro needs and get one, then have alot of power stock and recieve more from mods. They would get to 300 rwhp with boltons, and Id have good gas mileage (for a v8), I would have to h/c/i a 5.0 to get to this power level and then loose economy and some driveability.. decisions decisions

 

[Mustangless]

Just look for camaros, and mustangs to test drive. If you like the camaro so much more, buy it.

 

[Cantslowdown]

Lt1s stock dont need a high grade fuel..But 5.0s are cheaper to mod as everyone else has said..Just its all in what a person wants to do..

 

[CanadaStang]

LT1 pro-con
Pro:
1) Premium fuel is what is recommended by GM for the LT1, but it has a knock sensor so you can run regular if you have to.
2)Performs about the same as stock 99-up Mustang.
3)6spd LT1's highway mileage about the same as Mustang
4)Responds fairly well to mods

LT1 cons:
1) A real B**** to work on
2)performs about the same as 99-up Mustang, dispite the much larger engine
3)plagued by Opti-spark issues
4)lots of squeeks
5)intirior has too mutch plastic
6)fuel mileage not very good when city driving

Mustang Pro:
1)physically smaller and lighter than Camaro/TA's
2)5.0's are torquey and are cheap to mod
3)PI 4.6's are about equal to LT1's dispite the small engine
4)well built, unless they've had a really hard life, have no squeeks or rattles
5)non-pi 4.6's can be made as fast as PI 4.6's fairly easily
6)better mpg city than LT1

Mustang con:
1)Stock 5.0's are no faster than non-pi 4.6's and are slower than LT1's
2)4.6 fairly expensive to mod
3)lacking in cu.in.'s
4)fake hood scoop
5)body not as stream lined as Camaro/TA's

 

[Skidzz]

Oh yea and also, the spark plugs on LT1's are a TOTAL b*tch to change. My 96 blazer was a PITA to change plugs in but I'd rather change the plugs on 5 blazers than on one lt1.

 

[CanadaStang]

Oh yea and also, the spark plugs on LT1's are a TOTAL b*tch to change. My 96 blazer was a PITA to change plugs in but I'd rather change the plugs on 5 blazers than on one lt1.

It's not too bad if you jack up the car as it's easier to get some of the plugs from the bottom but ya still a pain in the a**

 

[dstang01]

LT1 pro-con
Pro:
1) Premium fuel is what is recommended by GM for the LT1, but it has a knock sensor so you can run regular if you have to.

This is true, but when the timing is pulled by the knock sensor the car will get worse mileage and make less power, so its worth the cost to run premium fuel and get full potential

2)Performs about the same as stock 99-up Mustang.

Its kind of unfair to compare an old lt1 to the new 4.6, the ls1 is kind of the same generation as the 4.6. But if you would like to compare, the lt1 is stronger. Its also torquey as hell down low. Its kind of comparable to the '06 gts, but of course it has another litre of displacement

3)6spd LT1's highway mileage about the same as Mustang

The 97 lt1 gets about 27 on the highway with the 6 speed which is pretty good. The 04 4.6's get about 24 but of course this is with regular grade fuel.

LT1 cons:
1) A real B**** to work on

There is no denying this they are a bitch to work on

2)performs about the same as 99-up Mustang, dispite the much larger engine

Again, you cant compare the two fairly because of the technology increases over time. lt1 was an early 90's vette engine, the 4.6 is fords current engine line for the mustang.

3)plagued by Opti-spark issues

Definately overrated, it will have to be replaced sometime but if you get the later lt1s with the vented opti it practically fixes the problem

4)lots of squeeks
5)intirior has too mutch plastic

Good ol' american quality

6)fuel mileage not very good when city driving

Its probably similar to the stang??

Mustang Pro:
1)physically smaller and lighter than Camaro/TA's
2)5.0's are torquey and are cheap to mod
3)PI 4.6's are about equal to LT1's dispite the small engine
4)well built, unless they've had a really hard life, have no squeeks or rattles
5)non-pi 4.6's can be made as fast as PI 4.6's fairly easily
6)better mpg city than LT1

Mustang con:
1)Stock 5.0's are no faster than non-pi 4.6's and are slower than LT1's
2)4.6 fairly expensive to mod
3)lacking in cu.in.'s
4)fake hood scoop
5)body not as stream lined as Camaro/TA's

Good information Canadastang Thanks everyone for your replies

 

[Cantslowdown]

Putting headers on a lt1 is hard also...But a buddy of mine had a t/a ran 89 ran great had alot of balls 6 speed and all..He ran 87 really didnt like it..They all have there cons just amatter of what u want..

 

[BurningRubber]

As far as the LT1 and PI-4.6 debate, ive ridden in an auto LT1 with a shift kit and exhaust and I dont think it pulled as hard as my Mustang does.

Id go 5.0 just for ease to work on, seriously. If you have ever looked under the hood of an LT1 Camaro for more than a few seconds, you will quickly realise that anything is gonna be more painful then it needs to be. I was actually looking at a 97 Z28 before I got my GT, and when I popped the hood I was thinking... "wtf...?". There was no room for anything, couldnt even see how I would get to the spark plugs, not to mention the front of the engine is crammed right next to the radiator, the coolant bottles and crap are all in the front between the bumper and other stuff, I dunno I didnt really like the setup at all. I like being able to open my hood and being able to get to whatever I need to fairly easy, same for a 5.0.

Truth be told, id get an old LX notchback Fox Body with a 5.0. They are the lightest Mustangs made, and will be as fast, or a tick faster than the LT1's stock. The notch's can get fast really quick, for not much money.

 

[CanadaStang]

This is true, but when the timing is pulled by the knock sensor the car will get worse mileage and make less power, so its worth the cost to run premium fuel and get full potential


Its kind of unfair to compare an old lt1 to the new 4.6, the ls1 is kind of the same generation as the 4.6. But if you would like to compare, the lt1 is stronger. Its also torquey as hell down low. Its kind of comparable to the '06 gts, but of course it has another litre of displacement

The 97 lt1 gets about 27 on the highway with the 6 speed which is pretty good. The 04 4.6's get about 24 but of course this is with regular grade fuel.


There is no denying this they are a bitch to work on

Again, you cant compare the two fairly because of the technology increases over time. lt1 was an early 90's vette engine, the 4.6 is fords current engine line for the mustang.

Definately overrated, it will have to be replaced sometime but if you get the later lt1s with the vented opti it practically fixes the problem

Good ol' american quality

Its probably similar to the stang??


Good information Canadastang Thanks everyone for your replies

1) I was just stating that you can run reg. fuel if you "have" to

2)Yes it's unfair to compare the older LT1 to the PI 4.6 but you asked if you should buy a Stang or the LT1, so I answered the question
The LT1 powered Camaro/TA has a bit more flab to drag around so the extra 10-20 HP advantage it has from the 70cu.in larger engine isn't noticable in a performance comparison vs the PI 4.6


3)My Mustang gets about 1-2 mpg better than my 6spd LT1 Camaro on the highway. That's why I said "about the same"!

4)As I stated earlier, the non-pi's can be made to perform as well as the PI's rather easily, so it seemed to be relevant to compare the LT1 to the PI 4.6's.

5)I've owned two LT1's over the years and my brother owns one. Ive replaced the Opti-Spark on my current LT1 and twice on my old 94' LT1. My brother also replaced his twice in the 7 years he's owned it. Also we own an engine rebuilding business and have changed about 60 of them over the years. Don't get me wrong, I like my LT1's but the Opti-spark has issues and most people who own them aren't aware that it's not performing as it should, hence the "I just whipped an LT1 with my Stock Mustang" comments on the board. The newer LT1's were better but they still cause grief.

6)My Mustang gets much better mpg city driving than my old LT1, my current LT1 and my LS1 and my g/f's LS1.

 

[Craiger77]

You seem to really be hung up on the fuel thing.

It doesn't matter what car or engine you choose. Eventually you will be REQUIRED to use premium once you reach a certain power level anyways.

Just choose the car you like best and go with it. Don't pick a car HOPING that it will satisfy you or grow on you because it probably won't.

 

[CanadaStang]

You seem to really be hung up on the fuel thing.

It doesn't matter what car or engine you choose. Eventually you will be REQUIRED to use premium once you reach a certain power level anyways.

Just choose the car you like best and go with it. Don't pick a car HOPING that it will satisfy you or grow on you because it probably won't.

Well said!! ^^^
No matter which car you choose, chances are pretty good you'll be cursing when you work on it anyway

If your a GM guy and you're familiar with the LT1's performace, I don't think you'll be happy with the non-pi Stang unless you do the headswap or the PI intake cam swap. Generally it's a good idea to be happy with the car when you buy it and then if you want more power, start modding. If you buy a car in hopes of making it into something you'll eventually like, chances are you'll never be happy.

 

[dstang01]

Thats very true guys, good insights. I do like the look of the sn95s, so its not like Im trying to force myself to. I think the best thing to do is go test drive a 5.0 and 4.6 and get a better idea, mustangs are everywhere where I live and are priced pretty well compared to fbodys. There are very few fbodys for sale around here and the decent lt1s and ls1s are overpriced. Craiger, I know ill have to run premium eventually if I change the timing or boost the engine, but something running happily on regular would make life easier for me now