how to mold your engine bay?
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mo_dingo
Dirt-Old 20+Year Member
xYoung347x said:
The best, and only way to do what he did was do exactly like he did it. Remove the motor and all components, get a bunch of sheet metal that is comparable to the sheet metal in your engine bay (don't know an appropriate thickness off the top of my head).
Then once the motor is out & all of the wiring is removed, you need to make a plan. What holes need to be there, and for the ones that need to stay, do you want to make them smaller, or what.....Write everything down, so you can keep track. Also, you should label each hole with a number or something. This will allow you to keep track of the panels and their locations.
I know there are some holes that have raised/lowered lips along the edges. These will need to be removed. You can either cut out the raised lip so the hole is level, or you can bang/whack at it until it's somewhat straight. I prefer the cutting method. This will make the fabrication of the metal much easier.
There are some sections that have raised bumps, but without holes. I would recommend leaving these in. I don't know their function, but I don't want to find out the hard way. Just the absense of holes is enough for me. But if you want to take it that far, then go right ahead. Just make sure what you are doing won't affect anything.
Then you start measuring all of the pieces you will need to cut. Typically it's better to get a piece of hard paper (like thin cardboard, not the thick stuff), and cut out the shapes you want to cut on the sheet metal. They don't need to be perfect. The welding can make up gaps up to about 1/16". More is possible, but I wouldn't recommend it. Don't get me wrong though; the closer you get to the exact shape, the easier it will be to weld, and the less clean up later.
Once all of the pieces are cut in the cardboard, you need to transfer the shapes onto the sheet metal.
Once the pieces are drawn on the sheet metal, you need to cut the sheet metal. I would recommend a sawzall or something of the sort. A jig will work also, but if the sheets are too long/wide, it will be cumbersome trying to turn/manipulate the sheet while making sure your cuts are perfect. I don't know how well the sawzall works, but I haven't heard anything bad about it yet.
Once the pieces are cut, you need to do some practice work before you work on the car. I would recommend getting a piece of a fender from a junkyard. Then you can cut out holes in it, and make pieces to put in, and practice welding them in. Do several small, medium & large holes until you feel comfortable.
Now, once the pieces are cut, you can start the process of attaching the pieces onto the body of the car. You can't weld on top of paint (shouldn't is the word I should have used, but seriously, don't). You need to grind the paint away from the spots where you welding. This means around the entire edge of the holes.
If you plan on painting another
I assume you have a welder. I only have experience with a wire feed style welder. In any case, you need to do your welds in small spots, varying their position around the area. Meaning if you are welding a piece of metal in the shape of a circle, you should start at the top, do a small spot, then go down to the bottom, and do a spot, then go to the side, etc etc....This will distribute the heat & allow for a much speedier process. Otherwise you will have to wait for the metal to cool down or you will burn right through the body panel or sheet metal panel.
A couple of notes. Make sure the metal is not galvanized (sp?). If it is, you can't weld it without grinding the coating off as well. It is very poisonous if you don't grind it off, so it's best not to even use it at all. I can't imagine why it would be galvanized, but I thought I would make that warning.
Next thing is to make sure you know what you are doing (welding wise). If you haven't done much welding, this will be a difficult task. I recommend a lot of practice before hand. Especially if this is a daily driven car, which you will want back to the driveable state by a weeks time. (trust me, you will need at least a week. May not take you that long, but there are inevitable circumstances that will pop up and kick you in the **** if you don't have the time to fix them.
After everything is welded in place, it's time to start grinding. The welding metal needs to be ground down until it's completely flush. It's easy at first, to get the majority off, but getting it to be completely flush is another story. Start in small spots, concentrating on that section only. Don't go to another area until the previous one is finished. It is very time consuming, and can get frustrating at times. You may want to jump from area to area if one spot is giving you problems. This will allow you to keep your sanity.
If you grind too much, you can always use the welder to add more material and you can start again. Or, some bondo may be used to make it look perfect if it's a really small spot. I would refrain from using bondo because it's just a easy way to get out of a problem. It takes a lot if skill, time and patience to make the panels completely flush and ready for paint.
As far as tools for grinding, I would start with a general grinding wheel to get the majority off. Then I would switch to a dremel tool and go from there.
I don't know the specific/appropriate wheels/grinding tools to use for this project. I would assume a variety would be a great start. Some that cut really fast and coarse, then some that cut slower and smooth out the metal, then some more that make it perfectly flat and smooth. Then get some wheels that will polish the metal to a nice shine and ultra smooth.
I don't know how far you need to go on the polishing side; The paint may smooth things out, but I don't know how far it will go.
Next is paint. This is something that I would leave to a professional, or if you want to tackle this as well, you will need many more tools. First is an big air compressor, a really good paint gun, variety of sandpaper, a dust free environment, paint/primer/sealer, etc etc.... I will paint my car when it comes time, but I am planning on allowing a full week for the project & it will probably take longer than that. Since the engine bay is relatively small in your case, you won't need to allot that much time.
This is probably no where near complete, but it's a start. Anyone that has anything to add, please do. I wouldn't want to steer you in the wrong direction or leave anything out.
Scott
1105
I AM the random post master...bow down
heres a PM I sent to FastGT94 when he asked what I did for mine. Hope it helps
Hey, so far all of my work has been with the engine still in the car. Stuff I've used so far is a perminate marker, ruller, poster board from walmart (67 cents a sheet) one sheed or 2'x4' 20 or 22 gauge sheet metal, grinder, and a diegrinder with a cutoff wheel. I'll send you all the pictures I have and what I was doing at that point in time.
Here I measured out the template for the fender. I measured the bottom flat piece first, I think it was 2.5" and the length of the whole piece which is 21" I think, then got a rough estimate of the total height, of the piece, so it would be from the bottom of the fender up to the top, plus the 2.5" from the bottom flat piece. After that, I reaced on the back side with the marker where I needed to cut to make it fit up inside the fender, taped little pieces on where there was gaps and that part was done.
Piece cut out of the sheet metal using the diegrinder and cutoff wheel.... I also made a template for the front right behind the headlight using the same way as the fender.
After it was all fitted in place and felt nice, I ground off the coating all the way around the sheet metal on the edges, and marked on my car where the metal met the body and sanded that down to bare metal.
Once all that was clean, I welded the piece in, just using abunch of tach welds about every other inch all the way around, then did it again, and again until it was all welded.
Once it was all welded, I covered up EVERYWHERE on my car that was paint, windows, etc that sparks would get on, then I got the grinder and started grinding the weld down, then I got the cutoff wheel and the diegrinder to get in some small places.
All ground down smooth, just sprayed cheapy primer on it to keep from rusting.
Sanded everything down with 80 grit paper, then applied bondo that you can get from walmart... buy the BIG tub of this stuff... Its only like $18. Its hard to work with at first, and makes a mess but be patient. Its best to get a cheese grater like thing to take down the big clumps of bondo when its still fairly wet. After its dried some, get a sanding block and 80 grit paper and start sanding, and sand some more lol
For filling in the edges, I found it best to mix and apply the bondo with my finger, that way you can get it packed into the groove. Sand it with the paper wraped around your finger so you get the curved look. For the bottom part since it was at an angle, I built it up with bondo using my finger and applying it until I got it level.
Just a shot of the corner where 3 angles meet
For this part the sheet metal was fairly close to the rest of the body, so I mixed up the bondo, and used my finger and scraped it up under the lip, then added more, and more until I got it all to connect. I dont have any finished pictures of this but all of the parts flow smoothly together.
That about covers all of it... Just have to sand until you get the results you want, and repeat the same for the other side. If you want to fill in all of the little holes, get out the welder and just weld them all up, sand smooth, and apply bondo if needed to fill in any low spots. If you want a pic of my template, I can go put markings on it and get a picture for you. You can also get ahold of my on AIM at GT1105. Good luck and be prepaired for a lot of work if you start doing this.
Hey, so far all of my work has been with the engine still in the car. Stuff I've used so far is a perminate marker, ruller, poster board from walmart (67 cents a sheet) one sheed or 2'x4' 20 or 22 gauge sheet metal, grinder, and a diegrinder with a cutoff wheel. I'll send you all the pictures I have and what I was doing at that point in time.
Here I measured out the template for the fender. I measured the bottom flat piece first, I think it was 2.5" and the length of the whole piece which is 21" I think, then got a rough estimate of the total height, of the piece, so it would be from the bottom of the fender up to the top, plus the 2.5" from the bottom flat piece. After that, I reaced on the back side with the marker where I needed to cut to make it fit up inside the fender, taped little pieces on where there was gaps and that part was done.
Piece cut out of the sheet metal using the diegrinder and cutoff wheel.... I also made a template for the front right behind the headlight using the same way as the fender.
After it was all fitted in place and felt nice, I ground off the coating all the way around the sheet metal on the edges, and marked on my car where the metal met the body and sanded that down to bare metal.
Once all that was clean, I welded the piece in, just using abunch of tach welds about every other inch all the way around, then did it again, and again until it was all welded.
Once it was all welded, I covered up EVERYWHERE on my car that was paint, windows, etc that sparks would get on, then I got the grinder and started grinding the weld down, then I got the cutoff wheel and the diegrinder to get in some small places.
All ground down smooth, just sprayed cheapy primer on it to keep from rusting.
Sanded everything down with 80 grit paper, then applied bondo that you can get from walmart... buy the BIG tub of this stuff... Its only like $18. Its hard to work with at first, and makes a mess but be patient. Its best to get a cheese grater like thing to take down the big clumps of bondo when its still fairly wet. After its dried some, get a sanding block and 80 grit paper and start sanding, and sand some more lol
For filling in the edges, I found it best to mix and apply the bondo with my finger, that way you can get it packed into the groove. Sand it with the paper wraped around your finger so you get the curved look. For the bottom part since it was at an angle, I built it up with bondo using my finger and applying it until I got it level.
Just a shot of the corner where 3 angles meet
For this part the sheet metal was fairly close to the rest of the body, so I mixed up the bondo, and used my finger and scraped it up under the lip, then added more, and more until I got it all to connect. I dont have any finished pictures of this but all of the parts flow smoothly together.
That about covers all of it... Just have to sand until you get the results you want, and repeat the same for the other side. If you want to fill in all of the little holes, get out the welder and just weld them all up, sand smooth, and apply bondo if needed to fill in any low spots. If you want a pic of my template, I can go put markings on it and get a picture for you. You can also get ahold of my on AIM at GT1105. Good luck and be prepaired for a lot of work if you start doing this.
OinkAodeOink
Founding Member
Damn Mo Dingo, and zach... Pretty much summed it all up..
Trick i used.. take LOTS of pictures, befor and during, and after of course.
This will help save your ass, if you forget where somthing went or how it went.
Oh and by the way, you dont NEED a really good gun and bigass compressor, and such just to paint an engine bay..
My engine bay paintjob turned out show car flawless, jsut painting the thing in my two car garage (with the door shut) with a cheap ass* gun, 1 horse compressor, and so so paint/clear.. Its more so skill, then quality of supplies. And of course Wetsanding and compound are your friend!
Trick i used.. take LOTS of pictures, befor and during, and after of course.
This will help save your ass, if you forget where somthing went or how it went.
Oh and by the way, you dont NEED a really good gun and bigass compressor, and such just to paint an engine bay..
My engine bay paintjob turned out show car flawless, jsut painting the thing in my two car garage (with the door shut) with a cheap ass* gun, 1 horse compressor, and so so paint/clear.. Its more so skill, then quality of supplies. And of course Wetsanding and compound are your friend!
xYoung347x said:
Sorry...I had to do that...Mike has spent numerous tideous hours on that thing...I think only HE can do that.
BTW..Nice step-by-step Pictorial Zach....Just didnt see the finished product.
GL xYoung.
RC
mo_dingo said:
Scott,
Excellent write up. But having spent several years working in a sheetmetal shop, let me say that in my opinion, the best method for cutting sheetmetal in this situation is with aviation snips. They offer, by far, the best control and finesse for the dollar.
Spend about $50 (last time I bought some) and get a set of lefts and rights (red and greens). They can be had at most tool stores, but I highly recomend Malco brand, available at any HVAC parts store. My newest pair is over 6 years old and will still cut 1/16" of material off 18-26 gauge without distorting the stock.
1105
I AM the random post master...bow down
still working on it94GTLaserRC said:
donjohn
New Member
1105 said:heres a PM I sent to FastGT94 when he asked what I did for mine. Hope it helps
Hey, so far all of my work has been with the engine still in the car. Stuff I've used so far is a perminate marker, ruller, poster board from walmart (67 cents a sheet) one sheed or 2'x4' 20 or 22 gauge sheet metal, grinder, and a diegrinder with a cutoff wheel. I'll send you all the pictures I have and what I was doing at that point in time.
Here I measured out the template for the fender. I measured the bottom flat piece first, I think it was 2.5" and the length of the whole piece which is 21" I think, then got a rough estimate of the total height, of the piece, so it would be from the bottom of the fender up to the top, plus the 2.5" from the bottom flat piece. After that, I reaced on the back side with the marker where I needed to cut to make it fit up inside the fender, taped little pieces on where there was gaps and that part was done.
Piece cut out of the sheet metal using the diegrinder and cutoff wheel.... I also made a template for the front right behind the headlight using the same way as the fender.
After it was all fitted in place and felt nice, I ground off the coating all the way around the sheet metal on the edges, and marked on my car where the metal met the body and sanded that down to bare metal.
Once all that was clean, I welded the piece in, just using abunch of tach welds about every other inch all the way around, then did it again, and again until it was all welded.
Once it was all welded, I covered up EVERYWHERE on my car that was paint, windows, etc that sparks would get on, then I got the grinder and started grinding the weld down, then I got the cutoff wheel and the diegrinder to get in some small places.
All ground down smooth, just sprayed cheapy primer on it to keep from rusting.
Sanded everything down with 80 grit paper, then applied bondo that you can get from walmart... buy the BIG tub of this stuff... Its only like $18. Its hard to work with at first, and makes a mess but be patient. Its best to get a cheese grater like thing to take down the big clumps of bondo when its still fairly wet. After its dried some, get a sanding block and 80 grit paper and start sanding, and sand some more lol
For filling in the edges, I found it best to mix and apply the bondo with my finger, that way you can get it packed into the groove. Sand it with the paper wraped around your finger so you get the curved look. For the bottom part since it was at an angle, I built it up with bondo using my finger and applying it until I got it level.
Just a shot of the corner where 3 angles meet
For this part the sheet metal was fairly close to the rest of the body, so I mixed up the bondo, and used my finger and scraped it up under the lip, then added more, and more until I got it all to connect. I dont have any finished pictures of this but all of the parts flow smoothly together.
That about covers all of it... Just have to sand until you get the results you want, and repeat the same for the other side. If you want to fill in all of the little holes, get out the welder and just weld them all up, sand smooth, and apply bondo if needed to fill in any low spots. If you want a pic of my template, I can go put markings on it and get a picture for you. You can also get ahold of my on AIM at GT1105. Good luck and be prepaired for a lot of work if you start doing this.
Hey go ahead and send me those pictures you was talking about, thanks.
1105
I AM the random post master...bow down
Dont know how much of a help it'll be, but it might get you started. You'll probably have to do some trimming here and there to make it fix. The pass side will be a little different than the drivers side too
95Vert
New Member
1105
I AM the random post master...bow down
95Vert said:
what was the ... for? If anyone wants my pictures I can email them to you... dont feel like uploading them again.
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