I got a Lawyer for us on the Tremec 3650

Discussion in 'SN95 4.6L Mustang Tech' started by Dewayne, Jun 5, 2003.


  1. Golions

    Golions New Member

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    I wouldn't necessarily call 250 people, many of which have just jumped on the wagon, a "common problem". Of the 250, reduce the number by people who may have over-modded or abuse their trans. The 250 number drops further. How many Mustangs has Ford put the 3650 in? Maybe 100K per year? After you answer that, come up with a percentage. I think it is pretty small in Ford's eyes when it comes to contemplating a recall.

    I think the "blinders", as you say, are on you and many people in this thread who constantly hear of only problems with the 3650. Anyone who posts anything positive is told not to post. When you read something over and over you start to beleive it is truth. That is what is happening in this thread. That is blinders my friend.

    I am not saying that the 3650 isn't problem free. Obviously there are people with issues. I just think working within the dealer warrenty service realm will work the best. For every person on this forum who has been "denied service because the tranny is acting normal", there have been twice the number of people who have found dealers to do the service work. If one dealer won't look at it, find one that will. If you happen to live in an area with only 1 Ford dealer within a 60 mile radius (compalints which I have heard here before), maybe you should have not chosen a Ford.

    GiddyUp!
     
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  2. Golions

    Golions New Member

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    I wouldn't necessarily call 250 people, many of which have just jumped on the wagon, a "common problem". Of the 250, reduce the number by people who may have over-modded or abuse their trans. The 250 number drops further. How many Mustangs has Ford put the 3650 in? Maybe 100K per year? After you answer that, come up with a percentage. I think it is pretty small in Ford's eyes when it comes to contemplating a recall.

    I think the "blinders", as you say, are on you and many people in this thread who constantly hear of only problems with the 3650. Anyone who posts anything positive is told not to post. When you read something over and over you start to beleive it is truth. That is what is happening in this thread. That is blinders my friend.

    I am not saying that the 3650 isn't problem free. Obviously there are people with issues. I just think working within the dealer warrenty service realm will work the best. For every person on this forum who has been "denied service because the tranny is acting normal", there have been twice the number of people who have found dealers to do the service work. If one dealer won't look at it, find one that will. If you happen to live in an area with only 1 Ford dealer within a 60 mile radius (compalints which I have heard here before), maybe you should have not chosen to buy a Ford. If you knew you had limited Ford services in your area and chose one anyway, it was your decision and you need to travel excess distances for service. By the way, this is just my opinion.

    GiddyUp!

    :nice:
     
    #162
  3. Twisted

    Twisted Founding Member

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    CuddaWuddaShuda

    I have a stock car, no bolt ons, driven it gently, no abuse and I have this problem. I took it to the dealer and they checked everything out, even the "slave cylinder". (I know it is a cable clutch) The second visit with the same complaint they did the trans fluid swap to synthetic and it is still not right. The best way I can describe the noise/problem is as you shift, you feel and hear the gears rubbing over each other as they try to line up and mesh. Kind of if you took a stick and held it against a picket fence as you walked by, but much faster.

    What bothers me so much is that I duplicated the problem with there Head Transmission guy in the car and they still say it is perfectly normal.
     
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  4. Golions

    Golions New Member

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    Sounds like a crappy transission guy. How many dealers have told you this?

    GiddyUp!

    :nice:
     
    #164
  5. CuddaWuddaShuda

    CuddaWuddaShuda Founding Member

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    Ford makes approximately 45,000 Mustang GTs a year. About 40% of these have 5-speeds. The T3650 started in 2001 model years... so we're talking about 3yrs * 45,000 cars * 40%, or 54,000 cars. Add in the Mach 1s, Bullitts, and Cobras and you probably have 70,000 cars, total. This is not 100,000 cars per year... but what you posted is still true. The same concept still applies.

    I would be willing to bet that most people with a T3650 have made it crunch a few times. It's possible to shift this transmission very fast (at least compared to the T56 or the T5). There is a school of thought among some people that whatever you do with the shifter while the clutch is down ought to be OK. When you're dealing with big torque, and a relatively lightweight transmission, that school-of-though is not necessarily correct, IMO.

    I guess the most honest, helpful thing I can say is this: my T3650 has crunched about 1/2 dozen times in the cold, usually speed shifting into 2nd or 3rd. At the time, it ****ed me off. I figured, "WTF? the clutch is down." If I had seen this thread at the right time, I probably would have been among the loudest complainers.

    What happened to change my mind? 1) I took the car to the track and it performed flawlessly, 2) I realized the car would be slower, heavier, and more expensive with the T56, and 3) I saw the practical, easy suggestions I was making on these threads being ignored. I posted some quotes from old service manuals about avoiding speed-shifts and about checking drivetrain alignment... completely ignored.

    You want a class action lawsuit? Fine, go for it... but there are easier ways to address this, which people are completely ignoring. Ultimately that's why I'm not joining in with the complaints here. You want me to admit the 3650 is a little flimsy? Fine, no problem. But I'm not going to blame Ford for the cases where people are going through 2 or 3 transmissions and messing them all up. In cases like that, I have little doubt that the driver is at fault. And I'm not going along with the T56-mania that seems to have taken hold here.
     
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  6. CuddaWuddaShuda

    CuddaWuddaShuda Founding Member

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    Amen; that is the real problem I have with this thread. It makes me think that the purpose of this thread is to bully Ford into giving some people free transmissions when they otherwise would have no reason to do so.

    The 250 people complaining here may represent many more who aren't posting or don't visit StangNet. But how in the hell are we supposed to come up with a believable estimate of what percentage of people have problems unless people post their overall experience, both positive and negative? Maybe the negative posts would outnumber the positive; maybe they would be 50% each, which would still indicate a problem. But we'll never know because of the people who are stifling an honest discussion among the full community of Mustang owners. What are the people who don't want positive posts afraid of?
     
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  7. JERRYC

    JERRYC Founding Member

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    Keep your opinions

    Maybe you guys who don't have the problems and don't share our frustrations should keep your .02 to yourselves. The link was posted for the benefit of those who have a common goal of trying to see this problem through and your so called statistics are pure conjecture.
     
    #167
  8. CuddaWuddaShuda

    CuddaWuddaShuda Founding Member

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    See my previous post:

    By stifling the positive posts, you have eliminated any credibility you had. Even if you can get 1,000 legitimate complaints, it will still barely by 1% of T3650 owners. If the thread had asked for thoughts on the T3650, bad or good, then maybe you all could have made your point. But it's too late now.

    I suggest this thread be locked, for irrelevance and also for attempting to stifle free discussion.
     
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  9. chuck deming

    chuck deming New Member

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    Hey, with a name like "golions" you wouldn't happen to live in Detroit, would you?? Are we stepping on some serious toes here?

    Anyway, to use your own numbers logic in reverse, for a representative sampling, 250 complaints in this forum would have to be multiplied by the ratio of: (people who DONT subscribe to the forum ) divided by: (the people who do subscribe). This would raise the numbers enormously, probably into the thousands. And we aren't all hotrodders.

    The way we are being treated by Ford is abominable. And I've been to two dealerships - I don't exactly live in the sticks. And yes, I think Ford is aware of it, and it IS a conspiracy of the bottom line.
     
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  10. chuck deming

    chuck deming New Member

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    Now who's trying to stifle? Nice try.
     
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  11. JERRYC

    JERRYC Founding Member

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    Chuck - I LOVE IT !! - way to put it
     
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  12. CuddaWuddaShuda

    CuddaWuddaShuda Founding Member

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    I never suggested we shouldn't have an open, honest discussion about the T3650. What I object to is the "don't post" attitude. And I think the title of this thread is damaging to the overall plight of American performance cars: "I got us a lawyer..." That's just dick, dude. To hell with lawyers.

    For any manual transmission you can name, I bet there are 1,000 people who have ruined it by no fault except bad driving. Putting up a thread that encourages people to promote their own issues into a class-action lawsuit is bad for Ford, bad for motor sports, and ultimately bad for the rest of us.

    I have seen threads closed for no better reason than the fact that they got a little adversarial over which car was faster. In light of the quick trigger the moderators have had on other threads, and in light of the nature of society today (litigious to the point of self destruction), I think the lock is completely justified in this thread. The fact that it was made sticky severly reduces my faith in God and Man.

    Moderators, if you want to redeem yourselves, lock this thread. You all want an honest discussion, fine. But ph*ck this $h1t.

    P.S.: Dewayne: what mods do you have? How many other stick-shifts have you owned? What has been your experience? I am really curious... maybe you're a real pro when it comes to shifting, with a stock driveline. But I am curious about this. We have no idea who in the hell you are, or what your experience is, and here you are trying to take on Ford and Tremec, after they have been so good to me (13.990 @ 98.90).
     

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  13. Twisted

    Twisted Founding Member

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    CuddaWuddaShuda And All

    Let's forget about all the numbers, let's forget about positive vs. negative comments. Think about this...

    You buy your first new car. You love your mustang and you don't abuse it, no mods, no racing. You have a legitimate transmission issue. You take it to the dealer and they straight out lie to your face that "THIS IS NORMAL". What are you supposed to do!? Let it continue to get worse?
     
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  14. 46defense

    46defense Founding Member

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    I don't know why everybody has to get in a big argument over this. For one, this has nothing to do with poor driving. PERIOD! My car was like this the day I got it! I'm not saying that this tranny is a complete P.O.S., it actually shifts good at wide open throttle. No complaints at all. It's the other 98% of the time that it is obviously the notchiest, clunkiest, 1-2 shifting tranny that I have ever drove. I can't think of one reason that it should feel any different going from 1-2 as it does going from 2-3 or 3-4 etc. BUT IT DOES! Sometimes at stop lights it doesn't even go into first gear at all unless I blip the gas pedal. To me it seems like something is just out of adjustment and it could easily be fixed. That is why it is so frustrating when you go in there and they tell you that nothing is wrong. Thank God I don't still live in wisconsin, because it was completely ridiculous in the cold weather. That clunky, notchy, feeling can't be good for the trans, and there is absolutely no way you can drive it to avoid it. I would say it will go at least 36,000 miles before it completely self destructs. No worries Ford!
    FRUSTRATING is definately the word!
     
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  15. JERRYC

    JERRYC Founding Member

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    CuddaWouldaShoulda - Since you have no issue with your car - why are you so obsessed with this thread ? As far as your class action suit problem - how do you suggest we take on Ford ? Would be real interesting to see your take on this if you had the problem. - If you are this envolved with a problem that doesn't concern you I'd bet you would be a real mover and shaker against Ford if you had this problem.
     
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  16. chuck deming

    chuck deming New Member

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    Right on,Jerry. The purpose of a technical forum is to bring problems to light, NOT to kiss *** over how much you love your car. I had three Aerostars in a row (don't hold that against me) when I had kids. It was a great car, practical for a family man, and reliable in my experience. I had my last one 10 years, and it was in great shape when I sold it. When the kids left the nest I opted for something more sporty - my GT. What a disappointment. So I'm not just a "Ford basher". We have a legitimate problem, as do many others, I'm sure, who aren't aware this forum exists. This is one way and one place to tackle it. I assume the moderators recognize this as a free, open and legitimate discussion - that's to their great credit, and I, for one, appreciate the opportunity to try and resolve, possibly, this issue.
     
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  17. Golions

    Golions New Member

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    I would suggest you handle warrenty repairs issues like everybody else does. Take it to the dealer and have it repaired. If they don't correct the problem, take it back again. Thats how things work. People are too quick to pull out the law suit card and that hurts us all in the end.

    Is it that your are worried you may be denied warrenty service due to your modifications? (Chip, Pully, exhaust, etc). If I look at Ford's warrenty document, they may have a refusal case.

    GiddyUp!

    :nice:
     
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  18. Golions

    Golions New Member

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    Hey, the Lions have a real chance to go 8-8 this year. Don't laugh, many people aroundhere would be very happy with that.

    I didn't mean to imply everyone in this forum is a "hotrodder", but there is a significant number of them.

    GiddyUp!

    :nice:
     
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  19. Golions

    Golions New Member

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    Jerry,

    As far as keeping our ".02 to ourselves", I don't think so. Anyone with a 3650 still under warrenty should be involved in this discussion. Any so called lawsuits could have an impact on how Ford treats EVERYONE's warrenty work. Even if you don't think so.

    Next time you have a notion to tell people not to post in an open forum, here is a suggestion:

    1. Get your own website
    2. Make sure only your friends join who have like opinions to yours
    3. Have a circle-jerk duscussion amoungst yourselves so you never have to hear an opposing position.

    GiddyUp!

    :nice:
     
    #179
  20. JERRYC

    JERRYC Founding Member

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    3 posts in a row - Golions you truly love to hear yourself talk. - and such nonsense too. Guess you wanna be famous by alienating the people on this thread. Actually achieved the opposite - it's amusing.
     
    #180

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