I Need Help..

Mccarbre

Active User
Apr 9, 2016
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Okay first off high everyone. And thank you for taking your time too read my comment. I'm having some issue with my 1993 Ford Mustang GT manual. The car starts up fine and runs but runs like total crap. I notice in the rpm gauge when it idles and driving highway speeds it drops like 500 Rpms and bumps it back to normal shuts off and restarts instantly this will happen when I first of starting it and letting it run 30 seconds too a minute it will do it every 10 seconds while driving. Also when i put a test light on power coming in from the coil and when the car does it the test light will flicker too. But I bought a new ignition Switch last year and that's what powers the coil.

This is happening over a year now and I'm sick and tired of throwing money at it and it still the same result. I've done some research and I've read jrichkr's posts check list and I bought the following

Msd pro billet distributor with a new tfi module last week

Msd coil last week

New TPS sensor and IAC 3 days ago

Mass air flow last year

New plugs and wires plus new wire to plug in the coil and to the distributor.

New ignition switch last year

I'm really stumped on this one and I'm pretty sure it's a ignition issue because the whole car feels like it wants to die. I drove it around like that for days around my house so when it finally completely dies on me I can find the problem easier but since I installed the new distributor and new coil it's only been doing it a little bit more rapidly though. I've read on some posts that some guy similar problem had a O ring on one of his injectors damages and causing jerking and sputtering... is that it? I've checked the power going to one of the injectors with the key on but no engine running and I'm getting 11.6. Is that bad? I read I'm supposed to be getting 12.

I'm sorry I'm jumping and throwing stuff every where but this is what I've done and the things I've done to find the problem. But the only thing I haven't done yet is look at the EEC power relay and the computer itself, and checked the wiring harness for ground shortage

I've also drove with a fuel pressure gauge and its above 30 lbs and I don't see a change when it does the car decides to do it. So I'm assuming the fuel is not a issue.

I need some help guys. If you can point me in the right direction to solve this problem. I'll be very much appreciated and I would give you the biggest hug.
 
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If you are getting intermittent current to your ignition coil, that is the problem. Don't even bother looking at fuel. Find out what is causing you to lose power to the coil. These cars are old, and electrical systems break down with time and heat. This is actually the farthest from the best of my talents with cars... But, I'd say most likely you have either a loose connection on a plug or terminal somewhere, or a break in a wire in the harness. I know for a fact early 90s Ford trucks were notorious for that problem with their engine harnesses and the remedy was to change out the harness. I've experienced that first hand. I'd say get a test light and follow the power wire in question to the source until you reach a spot where you have constant power. This will tell you where your break in the circuit or bad component is. Good luck man.
 
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Thanks for the info man. But it's intermittent which is the problem.. It happens every so often where it not like it stays messed up so I can find problem. I'm hoping it's not the wiring harness because it's going to be a mother **** too change.

But what powers that coil is the ignition switch. But I remember once it was doing that problem I had the plastic cover off that covers the ignition switch on the steering column Once I moved and wiggled the ignition switch it really wanted to shut off. and getting like you said intermittent problems ever since.

But I bought that damn ignition switch last year. Can it be worn out already?

I need to check the wire that powers that coil.

What voltage does it need to work properly?
 
Okay I followed what to do dumping the codes while having the Ac off and Trany in neutral and clutch to the ground.

It showed 4 and than stopped and revved the engine but I didn't get an 11 code I just got this what it showed blinking on the engine light

94

44

31

13

And than it repeated the same codes another time.
 
I might be able to find the problem... Do anyone you know or anyone else know a shop somewhere know how to use a oscilloscope? That might find what the problem is. Or no?
 
You do not need an oscilloscope. lol

Can you tell me if the emissions system or EGR has been tampered with or removed on your car?

Your codes indicate that it has. They also indicate that your base idle is not set correctly and/or you have a significant vacuum leak (probably caused by the fore mentioned EGR disablement/modification).

What history can you give us on the car and maintenance?
 
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If you are getting intermittent current to your ignition coil, that is the problem. Don't even bother looking at fuel. Find out what is causing you to lose power to the coil. These cars are old, and electrical systems break down with time and heat. This is actually the farthest from the best of my talents with cars... But, I'd say most likely you have either a loose connection on a plug or terminal somewhere, or a break in a wire in the harness. I know for a fact early 90s Ford trucks were notorious for that problem with their engine harnesses and the remedy was to change out the harness. I've experienced that first hand. I'd say get a test light and follow the power wire in question to the source until you reach a spot where you have constant power. This will tell you where your break in the circuit or bad component is. Good luck man.


Ignition switch (not the lock) also shares these symptoms.
 
Engine Off codes

Code 21 – ECT sensor out of range. Broken or damaged wiring, bad ECT sensor.
Note that that if the outside air temp is below 50 degrees F that the test for the ECT can be in error. Warm the engine up until you get good hot air from the heater and then dump the codes again.

The computer Engine Coolant Temperature sensor has absolutely nothing to do with the temperature gauge. They are different animals. The ECT sensor is normally located it the passenger side front of the engine in the water feed tubes for the heater. It has two wires that connect by a weathertight plastic connector.

The water temperature sender for the temp gauge is located in the driver's side lower intake manifold. It has a single wire that connects by a push on connector on the temp sender.
The ACT & ECT have the same thermistor, so the table values are the same

ACT & ECT test data:

Use Pin 46 on the computer for ground for both ECT & ACT to get most accurate readings.

Pin 7 on the computer - ECT signal in. At 176 degrees F it should be .80 volts

Pin 25 on the computer - ACT signal in. At 50 degrees F it should be 3.5 volts. It is a good number if the ACT is mounted in the inlet airbox. If it is mounted in the lower intake manifold, the voltage readings will be lower because of the heat transfer.

a9x-series-computer-connector-wire-side-view-gif.71316.gif


Voltages may be measured across the ECT/ACT by probing the connector from the rear. A pair of safety pins may be helpful in doing this. Use care in doing it so that you don't damage the wiring or connector.

Here's the table :

50 degrees F = 3.52 v
68 degrees F = 3.02 v
86 degrees F = 2.62 v
104 degrees F = 2.16 v
122 degrees F = 1.72 v
140 degrees F = 1.35 v
158 degrees F = 1.04 v
176 degrees F = .80 v
194 degrees F = .61
212 degrees F = .47 v
230 degrees F = .36 v
248 degrees F = .28 v

Ohms measures at the computer with the computer disconnected, or at the sensor with the sensor disconnected.

50 degrees F = 58.75 K ohms
68 degrees F = 37.30 K ohms
86 degrees F = 27.27 K ohms
104 degrees F = 16.15 K ohms
122 degrees F = 10.97 K ohms
140 degrees F = 7.60 K ohms
158 degrees F = 5.37 K ohms
176 degrees F = 3.84 K ohms
194 degrees F = 2.80 K ohms
212 degrees F = 2.07 K ohms
230 degrees F = 1.55 K ohms
248 degrees F = 1.18 k ohms

Diagram courtesy of Tmoss & Stang&2birds

88-91_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif


See the following website for some help from Tmoss (diagram designer) & Stang&2Birds
(website host) for help on 88-95 wiring http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/

Ignition switch wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/IgnitionSwitchWiring.gif

Fuel, alternator, A/C and ignition wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/fuel-alt-links-ign-ac.gif

Complete computer, actuator & sensor wiring diagram for 88-91 Mass Air Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/88-91_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif

Vacuum diagram 89-93 Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/mustangFoxFordVacuumDiagram.jpg

Code 24 - Intake Air Temperature (ACT) sensor out of range.
Bad sensor, bad wiring. The ACT for Mustangs built before 95 is in the
#5 intake runner. It measures the air temperature in the intake to help
computer the proper air/fuel ratio.

Note that that if the outside air temp is below 50 degrees F that the test for the ACT can be in error. Warm the engine up to operating temperature and retest.

ACT & ECT test data:

The ACT & ECT have the same thermistor, so the table values are the same

Pin 7 on the computer - ECT signal in. at 176 degrees F it should be .80 volts

Pin 25 on the computer - ACT signal in. at 50 degrees F it should be 3.5 volts.
It is a good number if the ACT is mounted in the inlet airbox. If it is mounted in
the lower intake manifold, the voltage readings will be lower because of the heat transfer.
Here's the table :

50 degrees F = 3.52 v
68 degrees F = 3.02 v
86 degrees F = 2.62 v
104 degrees F = 2.16 v
122 degrees F = 1.72 v
140 degrees F = 1.35 v
158 degrees F = 1.04 v
176 degrees F = .80 v
194 degrees F = .61
212 degrees F = .47 v
230 degrees F = .36 v
248 degrees F = .28 v

Ohms measures at the computer with the computer disconnected,
or at the sensor with the sensor disconnected.

50 degrees F = 58.75 K ohms
68 degrees F = 37.30 K ohms
86 degrees F = 27.27 K ohms
104 degrees F = 16.15 K ohms
122 degrees F = 10.97 K ohms
140 degrees F = 7.60 K ohms
158 degrees F = 5.37 K ohms
176 degrees F = 3.84 K ohms
194 degrees F = 2.80 K ohms
212 degrees F = 2.07 K ohms
230 degrees F = 1.55 K ohms
248 degrees F = 1.18 k ohms

CODE: 31 (KOEO) - EVP circuit below minimum voltage. Vref (5 volt reference voltage supplied by the computer) missing or broken wire or bad connection in circuit. Use a DVM to check for 5 volts on the orange/white wire. If it is missing, look for +5 volts at the orange/white wire on the TPS or MAP sensor located on the firewall near the center of the car. Use the black/white wire for the ground for the DVM.
With the sensor removed from the EGR and still connected, press the plunger and watch the voltage change on the brown/lt green wire. Pull the passenger side kick panel and measure the voltage at the computer. You will need to remove the plastic cover over the wires and probe them from the backside. A safety pin may prove very useful for this task. Use pin 27, EVR input (brown/lt green wire) and pin 46, signal ground (black/white wire) to measure the voltage. The orange/white wire is Vref and should always be 5 volts -/+ .25 volt. Be sure to measure Vref at the EGR sensor to rule out any broken wires or bad connections.
Measuring the voltage at the computer helps you spot broken wiring and intermittent connections.
See the graphic for the 10 pin connector circuit layout.
salt-pepper-10-pin-connectors-65-jpg.68512


a9x-series-computer-connector-wire-side-view-gif.71316


attachment.php


Code 85 CANP solenoid - The Carbon Canister solenoid is inoperative or missing.

Revised 11 –Jan_2015 to add warning about vacuum leaks due to deteriorated hose or missing caps on vacuum lines when the solenoid is removed.

Check vacuum lines for leaks and cracks. Check electrical wiring for loose connections, damaged wiring and insulation. Check solenoid valve operation by grounding the gray/yellow wire to the solenoid and blowing through it.
The computer provides the ground for the solenoid. The red wire to the solenoid is always energized any time the ignition switch is in the run position.

If you disconnected the carbon canister and failed to properly cap the vacuum line coming from under the upper intake manifold, you will have problems. You will also have problems if the remaining hose coming from under the upper intake manifold or caps for the vacuum line are sucking air.

Charcoal canister plumbing - one 3/8" tube from the bottom of the upper manifold to the rubber hose. Rubber hose connects to one side of the canister solenoid valve. Other side of the solenoid valve connects to one side of the canister. The other side of the canister connects to a rubber hose that connects to a line that goes all the way back to the gas tank. There is an electrical connector coming from the passenger side injector harness near #1 injector that plugs into the canister solenoid valve. It's purpose is to vent the gas tank. The solenoid valve opens at cruse to provide some extra fuel. The canister is normally mounted on the passenger side frame rail near the smog pump pulley.

attachment.php


It does not weigh but a pound or so and helps richen up the cruse mixture. It draws no HP & keeps the car from smelling like gasoline in a closed garage. So with all these good things and no bad ones, why not hook it up & use it?


The purge valve solenoid connector is a dangling wire that is near the ECT sensor and oil filler on the passenger side rocker cover. The actual solenoid valve is down next to the carbon canister. There is about 12"-16" of wire that runs parallel to the canister vent hose that comes off the bottom side of the upper intake manifold. That hose connects one port of the solenoid valve; the other port connects to the carbon canister.

The purge valve solenoid should be available at your local auto parts store.

Purge valve solenoid:
6



The carbon canister is normally mounted on the passenger side frame rail near the smog pump pulley.
Carbon Canister:
CP2000photo%20primary__ra_p.jpg





Engine Running codes

Codes 44 & 94 - AIR system inoperative - Air Injection. Check vacuum lines for leaks, & cracks. Check for a clogged air crossover tube, where one or both sides of the tube clog with carbon.

attachment.php


Revised 21 Sep 2012 to correct the description of the process that sets the code and include Thermactor Air System diagram.

If you have a catalytic converter H pipe, you need to fix these codes. If you don't, then don't worry about them.

Code 44 RH side air not functioning.
Code 94 LH side air not functioning.

The TAD solenoid/TAD diverter valve directs smog pump output to either the crossover tube attached to the cylinder heads or to the catalytic converters.

The O2 sensors are placed before the catalytic converters, so they do not see the extra O2 when the smog pump's output is directed to the converters or the input just before the converter.

The 44/94 code uses the O2 sensors to detect a shift in the O2 level in the exhaust. The smog pump provides extra air to the exhaust which raises the O2 level in the exhaust when the smog pump output is directed through the crossover tube.

When there is an absence of increase in the O2 levels when the TAD solenoid/TAD diverter valve directs air through the crossover tube, it detects the lower O2 level and sets the code.

Failure mode is usually due to a clogged air crossover tube, where one or both sides of the tube clog with carbon. The air crossover tube mounts on the back of the cylinder heads and supplies air to each of the Thermactor air passages cast into the cylinder heads. When the heads do not get the proper air delivery, they set codes 44 & 94, depending on which passage is clogged. It is possible to get both 44 & 94, which would suggest that the air pump or control valves are not working correctly, or the crossover tube is full of carbon or missing.

Testing the system:
Note that the engine must be running to do the tests unless stated otherwise. For safety’s sake, do test preparation like loosening clamps, disconnecting hoses and connecting things to a vacuum source with the engine off.


Disconnect the big hose from smog pump: with the engine running you should feel air output. Reconnect the smog pump hose & apply vacuum to the first vacuum controlled valve: Its purpose is to either dump the pump's output to the atmosphere or pass it to the next valve.

The next vacuum controlled valve directs the air to either the cylinder heads when the engine is cold or to the catalytic converter when the engine is warm. Disconnect the big hoses from the back side of the vacuum controlled valve and start the engine. Apply vacuum to the valve and see if the airflow changes from one hose to the next.

The two electrical controlled vacuum valves mounted on the rear of the passenger side wheel well turn the vacuum on & off under computer control. Check to see that both valves have +12 volts on the red wire. Then ground the white/red wire and the first solenoid should open and pass vacuum. Do the same thing to the light green/black wire on the second solenoid and it should open and pass vacuum.

Remember that the computer does not source power for any actuator or relay, but provides the ground necessary to complete the circuit. That means one side of the circuit will always be hot, and the other side will go to ground or below 1 volt as the computer switches on that circuit.

The following computer tests are done with the engine not running.
The computer provides the ground to complete the circuit to power the solenoid valve that turns the
vacuum on or off. The computer is located under the passenger side kick panel. Remove the kick panel & the cover over the computer wiring connector pins. Check Pin 38 Solenoid valve #1 that provides vacuum to the first Thermactor control valve for a switch from 12-14 volts to 1 volt or less. Do the same with pin 32 solenoid valve #2 that provides vacuum to the second Thermactor control valve. Turning the ignition to Run with the computer jumpered to self-test mode will cause all the actuators to toggle on and off. If after doing this and you see no switching of the voltage on and off, you can start testing the wiring for shorts to ground and broken wiring. An Ohm check to ground with the computer connector disconnected & the solenoid valves disconnected should show open circuit between the pin 32 and ground and again on pin 38 and ground. In like manner, there should be less than 1 ohm between pin 32 and solenoid valve #2 and pin 38 & Solenoid valve #1.

The following computer tests are done with the engine running.
If after checking the resistance of the wiring & you are sure that there are no wiring faults, start looking at the solenoid valves. If you disconnect them, you can jumper power & ground to them to verify operation with the engine running. Power & ground supplied should turn on the vacuum flow, remove either one and the vacuum should stop flowing.

Typical resistance of the solenoid valves is in the range of 20-70 Ohms.

See the following website for some help from Tmoss (diagram designer) & Stang&2Birds (website host)

http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/fuel-alt-links-ign-ac.gif

http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/88-91eecPinout.gif

If you have a catalytic converter H pipe, you need to fix these codes. If you don't, then don't worry about them


CODE: 31 (KOEO) - EVP circuit below minimum voltage. Vref (5 volt reference voltage supplied by the computer) missing or broken wire or bad connection in circuit. Use a DVM to check for 5 volts on the orange/white wire. If it is missing, look for +5 volts at the orange/white wire on the TPS or MAP sensor located on the firewall near the center of the car. Use the black/white wire for the ground for the DVM.
With the sensor removed from the EGR and still connected, press the plunger and watch the voltage change on the brown/lt green wire. Pull the passenger side kick panel and measure the voltage at the computer. You will need to remove the plastic cover over the wires and probe them from the backside. A safety pin may prove very useful for this task. Use pin 27, EVR input (brown/lt green wire) and pin 46, signal ground (black/white wire) to measure the voltage. The orange/white wire is Vref and should always be 5 volts -/+ .25 volt. Be sure to measure Vref at the EGR sensor to rule out any broken wires or bad connections.
Measuring the voltage at the computer helps you spot broken wiring and intermittent connections.
See the graphic for the 10 pin connector circuit layout.
salt-pepper-10-pin-connectors-65-jpg.68512


a9x-series-computer-connector-wire-side-view-gif.71316


attachment.php


Code 13 - Key on Engine off - ISC did not respond properly (extends to touch throttle then retracts for KOEO) – ISC

Key on Engine running - Idle Speed Control motor or Air Bypass not controlling idle properly (generally idle too high)

If your idle is above 725 RPM, the computer will set this code. Normal idle speed is 650-725 RPM. Higher than that means that someone has mechanically set the idle speed by use of the idle speed screw, and has effectively disabled to computer’s ability to control idle speed.
 
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The cars history is from multiple owners. Idk why code 94 would come up. I have a damn manual not a auto trans. Torque converters are in automatic trans... Well unless the previous owner had swapped a manual in it..

But what I know is I bought this car from a guy who.. Made some errors I fixed.. Like cut out a piece of plastic with a metal snippers to shape a regular gasket for the throttle body. Had to buy another one. The EGR plate has been removed and no longer in use. I'm surprised he successfully swapped out a whole Ford Explorer engine and put in a fox...

Well that's what I know he said that too my pa and me when I bought the car on Craigslist..

But the only thing I did or modify was add a centerforce clutch and a rebuilt t-5 trans. And I added the MSD distributor because maybe that was the cure it wasn't. And added Msd coil, new plugs and wires and even got a new ignition switch last year. Still problem still existed. Well not as bad tho. I can still drive it around but it will jerk like crazy on the highway.

Dropping 100 too 500 Rpms instantly and going back up again running like it should than do it again. I just wish something will happen and shut my car off for good. Than I can point fingers on what's going on.
 
But the weird thing was. My pa told me to get a piece of wire and use a wire coming off the positive side of the 12v battery and hooked it up to the coil for another power source maybe thinking we can bypass it. But drove it around and the problem still exists.

Idk what to do anymore.. I've done pretty much everything.. I'm thinking about ripping the wiring harness and getting a different intake and manifold and switching it too a carb... If I don't solve this. It's my end result.

I'm thinking about getting a new computer or a EEC relay that powers that computer. I've changed everything of what it can be and still no solving. If I have to change out the entire wiring harness.. I'm going for it but that's the last thing I'm doing.. If that doesn't solve it I'm going too carb the car.. But how do I check the EEC relay if it's working or the computer to see if that's working
 
The cars history is from multiple owners. Idk why code 94 would come up. I have a damn manual not a auto trans. Torque converters are in automatic trans... Well unless the previous owner had swapped a manual in it..

But what I know is I bought this car from a guy who.. Made some errors I fixed.. Like cut out a piece of plastic with a metal snippers to shape a regular gasket for the throttle body. Had to buy another one. The EGR plate has been removed and no longer in use. I'm surprised he successfully swapped out a whole Ford Explorer engine and put in a fox...

Well that's what I know he said that too my pa and me when I bought the car on Craigslist..

But the only thing I did or modify was add a centerforce clutch and a rebuilt t-5 trans. And I added the MSD distributor because maybe that was the cure it wasn't. And added Msd coil, new plugs and wires and even got a new ignition switch last year. Still problem still existed. Well not as bad tho. I can still drive it around but it will jerk like crazy on the highway.

Dropping 100 too 500 Rpms instantly and going back up again running like it should than do it again. I just wish something will happen and shut my car off for good. Than I can point fingers on what's going on.


I don't know where you got code 94 and auto transmission, it wasn't from me. On a 5.0 Fox Mustang, codes 44 & 94 point to the Thermactor Air System (AKA smog pump)

I only post 5.0 Fox Mustang specific code definitions and fixes. You might want to consider changing your information source so that you don't get off into never-never-land...