(I think) Timing chain issue... might explain dyno/starting/timing issues..

Discussion in 'Classic Mustang Specific Tech' started by SadbutTrue, Jan 7, 2009.


  1. Steve S

    Steve S New Member

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    Hi there,

    I had a problem with a balancer i bought a while back, the numbers on it were in the correct position for timing chain cover with the pointer on the passangers side but mine is on the drivers side. I had a reading similar to yours to get the motor to run close to good, stamped new numbers on it and started again.

    Steve
     
    #121
  2. SadbutTrue

    SadbutTrue Founding Member

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    Before you put the new #'s on, was your timing pointer pointing to 0 at TDC? My balancer has 3 sets of #'s, one of which matches up to my pointer at TDC. I would think this wouldn't be a problem if your pointer lines up with 0 but I guess theoretically just lining up at 0 doesn't mean they're right all around.

    I am 100% sure I'm hooking up the light to the #1 wire (well, to the #1 spark plug, after working through some logic it'd probably be the #3 terminal on the distributor). Does that kill the theory automatically?

    Say I connect the #1 spark plug wire (w/ light) to where the #3 terminal is (next one up, since 351w firing order is 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8).

    A spark would go to the #3 terminal and then to the #1 plug (and light) about 45 degrees early (1/8 a turn). While the distributor thinks you're firing the #3 50-55* BTDC early you're really just firing the #1 plug at about 5-10* BTDC. Hence why it runs decently at initial timing numbers that don't make sense.

    Any flaws with this logic? Seems like its worth a shot...
     
    #122
  3. jcode68

    jcode68 Active Member

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    Others will have to verify, but I think you are using the wrong firing order for the cam you are using. The correct firing order (based on threads i have read) I believe should be 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8. Does the cam card list the firing order to use? You are using the XE274H cam, correct?
     
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  4. fordmach70

    fordmach70 New Member

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    timing

    I have to ask are you going clockwise or counter-clockwise with the plug wires around the dist?
     
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  5. SadbutTrue

    SadbutTrue Founding Member

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    Pretty sure thats the 302 firing order, not the 351w. 351w and 5.0 HO are what i wrote, what you wrote is the old school 302/289 firing order.

    fordmach... going CCW (unless my memory is even worse than I think it is...)

    edit: got it all back together last night but the battery is dead, so it'll have to wait til today when we can charge it to mess with the spark plug wires
     
    #125
  6. 65ShelbyClone

    65ShelbyClone Founding Member

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    Yes, 1-5-4 is the old 221/260/289/302 firing order and 1-3-7 is for the 351W/5.0HO. Comp's XE274H has a different part number for each, I would guess because of the firing order. Which part number is your cam?
     
    #126
  7. jcode68

    jcode68 Active Member

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    I think the 2 different part numbers reflect hydraulic roller and hydraulic flat tappet. I based on the part# in his sig, I believe he is using the flat tappet. Jegs has the firing order posted for this cam:

    35-246-3 - Comp Cams 'Xtreme Energy' Hydraulic Flat Tappet Camshafts Details

    Ford/Mercury 351ci/5.8L ''Windsor'' 1969-95 & 302ci/5.0L H.O. 1982-95
    *Note: Firing Order 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8

    So it looks like he is using the correct firing order, just need to make sure it is in fact wired properly going counter clockwise. I have a feeling the root cause for this problem is very simple and will surprise all of us when found. Let's hope it's soon!
     
    #127
  8. SadbutTrue

    SadbutTrue Founding Member

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    Me too... :nonono:
     
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  9. woodsnake

    woodsnake Active Member

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    I'm thinking more and more a fuel related issue.....

    However, I'm hooked on this thread, and have followed it from the beginning.

    I too, and am looking forward to the final resolution...
     
    #129
  10. 65ShelbyClone

    65ShelbyClone Founding Member

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    Comp doesn't list an XE274H roller cam.

    I didn't know Jegs provided the firing order, but I checked the 35-246-3(351W) against the 31-246-3(smallblock) and they do indeed have different firing orders.
     
    #130
  11. SadbutTrue

    SadbutTrue Founding Member

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    I have the 35-246-3.

    We moved the spark plug wires over one (CCW) and then wrestled with it for about 2 hours, didn't make a whole lot of difference (other than a huge hassle trying to find where it ran again). We had to restab the distributor about 30 times... and when it finally ran (idled... really, really rough), the initial timing was... shock... 50 degrees or so :(

    Guess I try reversing those wires within the distributor next...

    Swapping a 500 edelbrock on friday just to see if that helps.
     
    #131
  12. Rusty67

    Rusty67 Well-Known Member

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    What happened to that 600 double pumper I loaned you ?
     
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  13. SadbutTrue

    SadbutTrue Founding Member

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    In my back seat still. I think we decided if we're going to throw on a random carb we'll use an edelbrock because we've had more luck getting them to plug-and-go.
     
    #133
  14. Rusty67

    Rusty67 Well-Known Member

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    That 600 carb is dialed in perty good. It should fire right up and hold an idle really well.
     
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  15. jcode68

    jcode68 Active Member

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    Did you ever verify that the avance isn't locked out on your distributor? What stop bushing and spring combo is installed?
     
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  16. SadbutTrue

    SadbutTrue Founding Member

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    I think we still have the stock/standard bushing & spring combo for now... wanted to get it timed before messing with that since right now its impossible to tell how much actual initial or total timing I'm running.

    Have not verified the advance isn't locked out. Will do soon.
     
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  17. SadbutTrue

    SadbutTrue Founding Member

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    Maybe I'll just use it then, it'd be slightly less work than yanking the one off Alex's car.
     
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  18. SadbutTrue

    SadbutTrue Founding Member

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    Swapped carbs (both rusty's holley and my brothers edel 500), didn't make any difference. Not that it makes a difference in the meantime, but I re-jetted my carb (71 primaries, 76 secondaries, up from 65/68). Floats weren't stuck, fwiw.

    Haven't checked the distributor lockout yet. Plan on calling compcams and MSD today to see what they say.
     
    #138
  19. CraigMBA

    CraigMBA New Member

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    By any chance do you have the vacum advance line still connected when you are setting the timing?
     
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  20. Rusty67

    Rusty67 Well-Known Member

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    I don't think his has the vacume advance canister.
     
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