IGNITION QUESTION FOR THE EXPERTS IN THIS AREA

[ARPM]

My new project, the 66 coupe has a 68 302 bored .040 and 1966 289 heads a bit worked out (Ported, SS Oversize valves,guide plates screw in studs ect)a dual point centrifugal hipo distributor in it and a hydraulic version of the hipo cam.

Originally I had the pertronix IGNITOR I module on it but the key was left in the on position for over 3hrs and got burned. I found on eBay a pertronix IGNITOR II module, new, unused at a great price ($25 shipped) but it was for a vacuum advance dual point’s distributor and the base holding the module was different.

After taking a look at it I figured that an aluminum base could be made using the base of the burnt IGNITOR I module as a template and fitting the IGNITOR II module in it. That was a snap on got it in easily. I then droped the new 60,000 volts pertronix coil and the MSD 6A, fired it and everything was OK. Since the bracket that holds the new IGNITOR II is slightly in a different position I re-checked the timing and set it at 12 degrees.

After a short ride that lasted about 1hr I noticed the temp gauge way above normal and it was a rainy afternoon (very cool day). The moment I shut-off the engine I had pre-ignition problems. A test with my infrared thermometer showed and engine temp of 261 degrees, the radiator didn't loose coolant cuz I have a recover tank and the electric fans were working ok (They fire up at 185 degrees) and the engine has a brand new fan clutch with a 17" 7 blades ford fan. The radiator is a brand new 4 row with a shroud and it has a brand new 1965 289 aluminum water pump and timing cover. Belts were ok.

The car ran fine before the new module was on and engine temp was always below 200 degrees, so the only thing I can conclude is that the new position of the IGNITOR II module is affecting the timing some how, The new module is less than 1/16" from the original location. Checking the specs of the IGNITOR II module i found out that it corrects the dwell and advances or retards the timing as needed.

Any sugestions guys?

 

[D.Hearne]

Did you check to see that the thermostat was opening?

 

[ARPM]

No thermostats needed here on these old cars. With normal daily temperatures in the high 90's and over 100F in summer even a 160 f thermostat overheats a bit. New cars are another story cuz their computers are capable of handling all changes easy. All my stangs have always run with no thermostats and they keep their cool. Forgot to mention that I was running with water wetter and water no coolant in the system. And have 2 8" spal pusher fans in front, radiator cap is 13#.

 

[D.Hearne]

No matter what you think, that motor needs a thermostat. Without one, it takes longer to get the motor up to operating temps, then once it's there, it needs a thrmostat to regulate the coolant flow to control the temps. I'm in south Louisiana and the temps here in summer are identical to yours. I've seen dozens of cars run hot without a T-Stat.

 

[ARPM]

Yes I know that, but even if I use a 160F thermostat in anyone of my stangs engine temp rises above 200F in all of them; remove it and presto, always below 200F.

Please don't misunderstand me, back in 1968 to pave my way in to college I worked for a Ford Dealer here doing wheel alignment in an old John Bean machine and I remember a TSB sent by Ford indicating the removal of the thermostat on all 289,302,351W but also sending a special thermostat of 155F for the 390,429 and later for the Cleveland’s. Boy do I remember those days! There was a box full of 100/s of removed thermostats that had between 4-25 miles on them. Why?... Because they were driven from the pier to the dealers by hired drivers not hauled in a carrier.

Also remember, all cars exported here from Ford lacked the heater in those days so a bit less water/coolant was in the system and then morning warm-up was faster do to overnight temps of over 80's. I remember also that all V8's came with a 5 blade fans and some imported/used cars from USA had a 4 blades at that time. All A/C equipped cars had the 7 blade fans and included the York aluminum compressor which ran cooler than the Tecumseh one used in USA. Believe me, you won't find here a pre 70's ford with a thermostat and all the one's that have tried share the same results as I did. This I know because I am a member of oldest classic Car club on the island and also a member in the P.R Mustang Club and have checked with all owners of the pre- 70's cars.

One more, if you want to see something weird I will take a Photo of one of my stangs that was exported here in 1965 and instead of the heater there is a Right Hand Vent almost identical to the left side one. My friend, Ford had many flavors of the same cars depending the area they were sent. Now days Ford sends the same cars as the USA market but also their computers have different programming for this area.

 

[mustangman1974]

if i remember right the ignitor ii is not compatible with the MSD 6 might wana try it with it bypassed to see if there is a difference.

I am not sure but is there dwell involved with the ignitor II I know on the older one you have to adjust it just right so the gap stays the same otherwise the timing changes.

 

[D.Hearne]

Well I still think it needs a T-Stat. Be that as it may, if you timed it at 12*, it's still 12* no matter where on the breaker plate the module is. I've never run an MSD so I can't tell you that's what it is either. I've run the Ignitor II in a V8 Ranger and it didn't cause problems (I've had both the Ignitor I and a Crane Xr-1 in it too)

 

[ARPM]

if i remember right the ignitor ii is not compatible with the MSD 6 might wana try it with it bypassed to see if there is a difference.

I am not sure but is there dwell involved with the ignitor II I know on the older one you have to adjust it just right so the gap stays the same otherwise the timing changes.

Did tried direct from the IGNITOR II to the 60,000 coil with no changes. I called Pertronix before purchasing the Coil and module regarding compatability with the MSD 6A and they claim i s OK.

 

[htwheelz67]

if no themostat works better then your radiator is prbably shot

 

[S-Car-Go]

How was the power on your drive? Are you sure it's advancing? What is your total advance?

 

[ARPM]

How was the power on your drive? Are you sure it's advancing? What is your total advance?

power was OK, and total advance is 36 degrees

 

[ARPM]

if no themostat works better then your radiator is prbably shot

Had it removed and since Radtec are my customers for over 15 years they checked it and said it was as good as a brand new radiator. After all it only has about 100 miles on the car. There was no sign of rust, all fins are straight and no blocked rows were there. While there they installed a drain valve because it had a bronze screw type plug to drain it.

 

[S-Car-Go]

If you are firing good at 12* thru 36* ignition is not causing you to overheat or overrun.

I'd look at other things. If the cooling system is good, what about fuel? Could you be running lean? Dirt n the fuel/carb? Old carb, tank? Vacuum leak? Did you make any other changes?

Personally, I'd run a high flow stat and water pump in your situation. The hi flow stats move so much water even cold, I could not get my car over 120* on a 65* day idlling in my driveway for 45 minutes. There was just too much bybass built in. I had to swap it out for a standard flow. Unfortunatly I had to try a couple different high flow stats (180*, 195*) before I figured this out. In your situation, this might actually regulate your temp.