I'm a little concerned about future Mustangs

Discussion in '2015+ (S550) Mustang -General/Talk' started by rconaway, Dec 30, 2012.


  1. gearheadboy

    gearheadboy Mod Dude

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    They have reps whose job it is to go out and fix these types of problems. Engineers as well. And if they can't fix it, replace the car. Simple.
    #21
  2. Svtpilot

    Svtpilot Founding Member

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    It really sucks that your in laws are having problems with their Taurus. However why would a problem with a Taurus indicate a possible problem with a future Mustang?
    #22
  3. rconaway

    rconaway Founding Member

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    The issues isn't the car, it's the company behind the car. And again, I bring up the 1999 Mustang Cobra as an example. How would you have like to have bought that car and the company simply says, "we know there are problems but we will fix them at some unknown time down the road". In this case, what if they had told you, "we know the car might go completely dead at random intervals meaning no power brakes, no power steering, etc... ", would you have bought the car. As an engineer, I know stuff happens. I'm fine with the standard troubleshooting problems. What I'm not comfortable with is simply saying, "we know there are problems that may put your life in danger but until you field test the problem, we aren't doing anything". I proposed a simple solution that is far cheaper than constantly testing the car and not finding anything wrong. It may not be the right solution but it's a start and eliminates the probable cause of the problem. This solution is also far cheaper than the inevitable multi-million dollar lawsuit that will ensue if they are hurt or killed on the freeway because the car stalled. Apparently that's not a good enough argument, at least at this point but I'll give them a couple more days to respond before I launch my social media campaign and release my next article referencing this exact issue, to get this resolved. It's amazing to me that Ford wants to go to this level and with my public statements, I'm getting some research into the issue but I'm not getting action. I'm kind of past talking about it. If this was simply something like the car not starting on a cold morning, fine, we will work through the issues. But when lives are in danger, there are no options. Actions speak far louder than words and I'm not letting up until something gets done.

    Ford, here is a public relations tip for you. Start an actual customer forum, let everyone speak their mind even if you don't like it, and let customers discuss things with you directly. I suggest you check out the forum on www.ubnt.com to get some guidelines on what builds customer loyalty because my customer loyalty has gone from 100% to a much, much lower level. And this from a guy that owns 2 Fords and has north of $100K in my Mustang.
    #23
  4. Svtpilot

    Svtpilot Founding Member

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    I'm not a "Ford can do no wrong" fan boy I have no problem calling them out and have done so on this site in the past. but in this case its difficult to fault them. If they cannot duplicate the problem it is going to be next to impossible to fix it , especially if no fault codes are stored.That's just a reality of today's high tech cars , and it doesn't matter whose badge is is on the grill. It would be one thing if they were refusing to look at the car, or refusing to repair it. There is only so much that can be done with out verifying the problem. Replacing all the harnesses as you suggested is not practical on a modern car with multiple processors and miles of wiring and it probably won't fix the problem and could create other issues.
    As far as the 99 Cobra what did Ford do wrong? True they initially denied there was a horsepower issue , but once they verified that the cars were producing significantly less horsepower then advertised they didn't just throw parts at the car in the hope of accidentally fixing it,which is kind of what you are suggesting. They investigated it found out the cause and came up with a fix that solved the issue once and for all. Of course there is a big difference between a car that puts out 270hp vs 320 but is otherwise fine and a car that randomly stalls on the highway.
    Just out of curiosity have you personally been able to duplicate the problem? I assume have more automotive knowledge then your in-laws. I suggest you drive the car until it stalls for you. Maybe there are some additional symptoms or actions associated with the stalling that your in-laws are missing that you may pick up. Just a thought.
    Good luck.
    #24
  5. rconaway

    rconaway Founding Member

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    Actually, there was far more wrong with the Cobra than just lower power. Mine was sitting on the lot to be picked up when I decided not to buy it and even the dealer didn't know all the issues.

    The stalling isn't a single time issue, it's now happened 3 times. My in-laws live in a different state so that's not practical. It also usually happens several months apart so that makes it almost impossible for me to drive the car. I've been in it several times and it never happened nor did I sense anything wrong. However, that is my point. My in-laws aren't field testers nor should they be. Maybe the harness is a little harsh but there are some things that should be done to protect their safety, regardless of what is causing it. As an engineer, I understand the complexity and I know what I would be doing if the problem was on my table. I would definitely be more proactive once analysis and testing options were off the table. It's just not worth the risk if they get hurt.
    #25
  6. Bullitt347

    Bullitt347 man bewbs please...

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    No car manufacturer will do ANYTHING about this problem. It "usually happens several months apart" really? What the hell can you do to diagnose that? My best guess is that they ran it out of fuel, period. If the problem can not be duplicated........then there is no problem. No manufacturer will randomly replace anything if they cannot duplicate the concern, otherwise every car maker would be broke from replacing random parts on every vehicle on the road for a conern that might happen "several months apart". Your in-laws need a reality check. Or they need to watch the gas gauge more closely. I have seen this "concern or problem" happen more than you can know.
    #26
  7. rconaway

    rconaway Founding Member

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    And your guess would be wrong but thank you for your input. Of course, if they get in an accident after I've notified Ford not only of the problem but also a possible inexpensive and private solution, then the surviving family will be anything but broke. If this was a simple maintenance issue, I wouldn't let it go. However, it's an issue where the failure puts the operator in danger when using the device as directed. That has product liability written all over it. Toyota tried to ignore these kinds of problems and not only did people get hurt, it cost them billions of dollars and a huge public relations disaster. The thing is Bullitt, it's not your family that's at risk, it's mine. That's simply not acceptable.
    #27
  8. Noobz347

    Noobz347 Stangnet Facilities Maint Tech... Er... Janitor Admin Dude

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    It's a simple maintenance issue? What issue? Have you diagnosed the problem? If so then... What it is?
    #28
  9. Bullitt347

    Bullitt347 man bewbs please...

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    If you or your in-laws are still tripping out over a "problem" that happens "several months apart"............then sell the damn car. You/they will never be happy because Ford does not have the ability to diagnose such an intermittent problem. And what the hell is "a possible inexpensive and private solution"? If it is so "inexpensive" have the work done at a independent shop and call it good...........why let this "failure puts the operator in danger" to continue? You give the impression that you know what the problem is, seeing as how you have "notified Ford of the solution".
    #29
  10. rconaway

    rconaway Founding Member

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    They are already looking at Audi's which is sad for an entire family which had Ford loyalty and family members that retired from Ford. If that happens, the Mustang gets sold, the E-150 gets sold, and I'll probably escalate my public campaign further out of general principals. There is right and wrong and ignoring this problem is wrong when there are some simple steps that can be taken.

    I didn't say I knew the answer, just where I would start as an engineer. Ford is contemplating that right now so we will see what they say. Bullitt, you just aren't getting this. This is Ford's responsibility to resolve this. I understand their position, I'm just not going to accept it until they make it right.
    #30
  11. Bullitt347

    Bullitt347 man bewbs please...

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    Despite your knowledge of an "inexpensive and private" solution, you will not be proactive and get it handled yourself and then send Ford the bill.............which they will pay if there is a legitimate problem and fix for the problem. Why wait for Ford and let the in-laws be "in danger" if this is so easy?
    #31
  12. Bullitt347

    Bullitt347 man bewbs please...

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    Really there is only one way to solve this "problem"................have the in-laws take the car to the dealership and let them keep it until the problem is cured, this way they are not in "danger" but most importantly they are not "putting themselves in danger". If they refuse and insist on continuing to drive the car in this "dangerous" condition.........then the fault is theirs and it absolves Ford of any liability. Period..........there I fixed it........that was easy.
    #32
  13. rconaway

    rconaway Founding Member

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    Let's start this over because you are forgetting the original diagnoses. If it takes several months between events and Ford only authorizes a few days of rental car and drives it for 170 miles and doesn't find the problem, do you think that Ford should authorize 6 months of rental car and let somebody at the dealership put 10,000 miles on the car? That's not a realistic solution. It's cheaper to do what I suggested and have a better chance of catching the problem.

    If we pay for what we think the possible cause is, do you think Ford will reimburse us without pre-approval for an unauthorized repair? If that was the case, why not just have the dealer do it? It's engineering's call right now. That's what I"m waiting for.
    #33
  14. Svtpilot

    Svtpilot Founding Member

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    But you haven't said what you think is the "possible cause ." You have suggested replacing every wiring harness in the car ,but that's not a "possible cause" that's just a guess. Doing so is just as unrealistic and likely considerably more expensive then putting your in-laws into a loaner for a month and having a tech drive the car until it stalls. Plus blindly throwing parts at the car without pin-pointing an actual fault will do nothing to restore your in-laws confidence in the car since they won't really know it was repaired. It will still be in the back of the minds that no actual problem was found so it could happen again. At this point If nothing concrete can be found wrong with the car, and you completely discount the possibly that your in-laws are in some way mistaken, I would probably trade the car in.

    No Ford will not reimburse for an unauthorized repair especially since no one including yourself have been able to find any issues with the car.
    Again I am sorry that your in-laws are having these problems, I wish you the best in resolving them , but this does not belong in the 2015 Talk and Tech section of Mustang website. If you posted it here to get some advice from Ford owners then good luck! I hope some one here can help you more then I can. (btw from 1989 to 2000 I was a Ford & Lincoln Mercury Service Adviser so I do have some experience with this.) On the other hand if your goal is to affect members buying decisions regarding current and/or future Mustangs you are probably wasting your time.
    Good luck!
    #34
  15. rconaway

    rconaway Founding Member

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    It has definitely affected my decisions on buying Fords, both personally and professionally, as well as the rest of our family. It's also generated a significant amount of negative publicity which is apparently the only way to get their attention after my in-laws were out of options. I have also posted this on a Taurus website. The next move is Ford's to determine where I take this to next. However, if I was looking at buying a new Mustang and in my case, I was considering a Transit and another E-150, along with many others in my industry, and I saw these kinds of problems, I would think twice. I've been on this forum for I think 10 years so I figured I would start here first.

    As for Ford not finding any issues, that's not my problem. My problem is that my inlaws found a problem and it's not a good one. So, I really don't give a hoot what standard policy or processes are, they don't work in the case. Therefore, new processes need to be developed for this situation and if I have to help that along with a public campaign, I'm pretty well equipped, connected, and motivated to do that. Hopefully it makes Ford a better company but again, it depends on their responses. So far, a little bit of troubleshooting and a lot of telling me what can't be done. What I want is what can be done. This is a waste of everyone's time and the farther it goes along without additional effort on Ford's part, the more motivated I get to resolve it.

    Trust me, the trade-in option is already being explored but they were hoping to at least get more than 2 years out of a car that could potentially injure them. If they are forced to trade it in because we can't come to a resolution, somebody is paying for that, financially or publicly.
    #35
  16. Bullitt347

    Bullitt347 man bewbs please...

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    Do Ford a favor and buy another brand.............you (your in-laws)cannot continue to drive a car they/you consider dangerous and have any credibility with anyone. If Ford authorizes only a few days of rental car, you somehow seem to think that anything beyond that makes it OK to drive this dangerous car. It is not. Your in-laws are a willing participant in this as you put it "dangerous" activity of driving the car. I bet if they were smart enough to keep gas in the damn thing the "problem" would go away. And do not tell me that this is not the problem.........remember you were not there to witness it, you just have word of mouth "evidence" that could easily be contrived. If I continue to put a gun to my head and keep pulling the trigger knowing there is a bullet in the clip somewhere................is it the gun manufactures fault that I eventually blow my brains out.............NO.
    #36
  17. rconaway

    rconaway Founding Member

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    Yea, so they take a financial hit for a product with a problem. But this also lets Ford off the hook to resolve something they built and sold. So thank you for your advice but I'll follow through on my original plan.
    #37
  18. Noobz347

    Noobz347 Stangnet Facilities Maint Tech... Er... Janitor Admin Dude

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    If this is the extent of your public smear campaign then it's a failure. I've seen more controversial material over at the Chik-fil-a blog. :rolleyes:

    I could see if you had a problem with an automobile and at least had some idea what the root cause might be. If you had taken THAT piece of information to Ford and been ignored, disregarded, or told to go pound some sand, then we'd all be right there with ya to make a stink about it.

    What do you actually have? Nothing... other than an inclination to get on the internet and shake your finger. :shrug:

    So what's your plan now? I ask because this one is not going to work.

    I have a suggestion for you though:

    Buy one of these - http://www.ebay.com/itm/ELM327-OBDI..._Automotive_Tools&hash=item2576824f81&vxp=mtr

    Then get this - https://play.google.com/store/apps/...?t=W251bGwsMSwxLDEsIm9yZy5wcm93bC50b3JxdWUiXQ..

    They have that app for Android or iphone. If Android, then put a 16G or larger memory module into the phone and data-log every time the car is driven. The NEXT time the thing fails, you will at least have a data-log to show the service rep.

    Maybe not a perfect plan but it's better than showing up to the service center and screaming about a ghost in the machine. :shrug:
    #38
  19. rconaway

    rconaway Founding Member

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    I appreciate the input. That's a great idea. Thank you.

    There is a good chance that I and Ford have the same idea of what's wrong. Just waiting to see what they do about it. However, neither of us know for sure.
    #39
  20. FordCustSrvc

    FordCustSrvc Member

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    Have they tried to put a "flight recorder" in your vehicle, rconaway? This may help record the codes the next time it happens. PM me and let me know what they say.

    Deysha
    #40

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