injector size?

Discussion in 'Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech' started by Mustang88LXKid, Dec 3, 2003.


  1. stangbear427

    stangbear427 Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2002
    Messages:
    2,408
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    49
    Location:
    New England
    So let me get this strait- what you're saying is, AIR FLOW RESEARCH doesn't know jack about their own product?
     
    #41
  2. Michael Yount

    Michael Yount Advanced Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2002
    Messages:
    9,047
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    77
    Location:
    Charlotte, NC
    Ah Stangbear - your youthful exuberance is showing through! Sure there are people at AFR (and ANY vendor) that know lots about their products. There are also people at all suppliers who answer the phone from time to time who are less informed than the person asking the question. Happens all the time. And some of those less informed folks work the tech/help lines. I won't go into detail about some of the inane responses I've gotten before - most especially from the cam companies. It all depends on precisely who you're talking to. As for any company's advertising/promotional literature - well, I've yet to find any that says "our product sucks, but it's cheap". Everyone paints their product in the best light they can - it's up to the buyer to do the research and discover the rest of the story. As a company AFR knows their stuff for sure. Can you pick up the phone and get someone on the phone who's not too knowledgeable - I'd bet you could.
     
    #42
  3. stangbear427

    stangbear427 Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2002
    Messages:
    2,408
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    49
    Location:
    New England
    Hey now, don't be throwing the age thing around just because I'm only 14! I know how to change my brake light fluid as well as anyone! Seriousely, I called AFR directly to avoid that kind of BS, and they were professional enough to transfer me three times. The last two guys I talked to were techs, and the last guy was being pulled away from something pretty important to set me strait, although I don't remember what it was. Regardless, I really thought I wanted 185's on my 302 and it took three different techs to talk me out of it. The synopsis was that on any street legal car (read: daily driver) putting 185's on any NA motor smaller than a 351 will only make AFR's look bad. They don't want to look bad, and I don't want to make them look bad. CHP will sell you whatever you think you want to buy- but these guys are serious about giving you what will work best. It was a disappointing phone call, and convincing me was like talking to a wall- but I'm glad they were honest with me. They really didn't want to sell me those heads. Need more than that? Somebody give Ed Curtis a call and get his knowledgable opinion. For the reference, his number was given to me directly by the AFR rep as someone close to me who really knows how to get everything out of AFR heads that they have to offer. Find out how many sets of 185's he's put on naturally aspirated 302's in general, nevermind one that isn't built specifically for running down the 1/4. May as well ask him what size injectors to run while you have him on the line too...
     
    #43
  4. 86Cobra

    86Cobra Founding Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2000
    Messages:
    2,064
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    Do you realize that the only differences between 165s and 185s are a larger intake port and intake valve? The exhaust port and valve are the same.

    Also, the intake port cross section on AFR 185s is only slightly larger than the intake port on TFS TWs and they both have 2.02" intake valves. If AFR 185s are WAAAAYYY TOOO large for a 302, then TFS TWs must be too.

    Yeah, that larger intake port might hurt you on a stock motor, but AFR 185s won't fit a stock shortblock so that's a mute point. You might sacrifice some bottom end on a mild HCI 306 with the 185s, but it's not going to KILL bottom end torque.

    Still, 165s are a better choice for a lot of motors that will never need the extra capacity of the 185s. But for someone trying to make serious power out of a 306, the 185s are a better choice.

    Sorry for the smarta$$ comment before. I just get tired of reading senseless generalizations like "AFR 185s are way too big for a 306" or "24s are all you'll ever need with a NA 306." Those kind of statements always come from inexperience.
     
    #44
  5. stangbear427

    stangbear427 Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2002
    Messages:
    2,408
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    49
    Location:
    New England
    OK. Don't sweat it. Out of curiosity though- why won't they bolt to a stock shortblock? The only thing I know of is the 2.02 intake valve- which by the way you can order 165's with a smaller one, making them different than the 185's in yet another way. The only reason TW's will bolt on with the 2.02 valve is because the valve is twisted. Even if it wasn 't though, it's a very simple thing to fly cut stock pistons without even removing them from the block. The original post was pretty cut and dry about serious power- the heads and intake were the only big parts on the list, making them a huge overkill for the project. He even specified a daily driver, un-"drastic" cam. Which it follows that if the engine isn't being built to justify a spyder intake, then it most likely won't benefit from bigger heads either.
     
    #45
  6. 90silverstang

    90silverstang Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2003
    Messages:
    142
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Palm City, Fl.
    What intake will the 165 heads benifit from, COBRA, PERFORMER OR PERFOMER RPM? On a 302 with the FTI cam, 373's and 5 speed.
     
    #46
  7. stangbear427

    stangbear427 Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2002
    Messages:
    2,408
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    49
    Location:
    New England
    Any of them, but I'd lean toward the RPM. If you are getting an FTI cam, Ed will most likely have a recommendation for your lobe specs.
     
    #47
  8. 90silverstang

    90silverstang Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2003
    Messages:
    142
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Palm City, Fl.
    any other opinions?
     
    #48
  9. 86Cobra

    86Cobra Founding Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2000
    Messages:
    2,064
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    Yeah, I mentioned that in my post. 165s have a 1.90 intake valve and 185s have a 2.02.

    Yes it's not that hard to do. But, most people adding heads to a stock shortblock don't want to/can't/or won't deal with that.
     
    #49
  10. 86Cobra

    86Cobra Founding Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2000
    Messages:
    2,064
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ

    The Performer RPM seems to be the intake of choice for a mild AFR 165 motor.
     
    #50
  11. 90silverstang

    90silverstang Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2003
    Messages:
    142
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Palm City, Fl.
    Just a question? Why wouldn't the Cobra or Performer be a better choice?
     
    #51
  12. stangbear427

    stangbear427 Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2002
    Messages:
    2,408
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    49
    Location:
    New England
    They MAY be a little bit torqier on the low end, but it's debatable. The RPM will pull harder to a higher redline. If porting is something you see on the horizon, then either of the Edlebrocks will be better than the Cobra, since they are pretty much designed to be broken down and worked on. In the end, it will depend on what cam profile you have.
     
    #52
  13. 90silverstang

    90silverstang Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2003
    Messages:
    142
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Palm City, Fl.
    Thanks for the help.
     
    #53

Share This Page