Discussion in '2005 - 2014 S-197 Mustang -General/Talk-' started by ExCon, Apr 30, 2005.
I said British Cars not British TRASH!!
I had a 59 Jag XK-150 and a 1984 Alfa Soider. Fun to drive but ExCon is right--they make American cars look great.
Hahaha, that's great
Wow, someone who thinks like I do
This thread is just a plain waste. ExCon... get a life. I could start a thread just to be controversial, but I like to use this area to spread knowledge and learn from others. Moderator, can you please shut this one down? This is just a waste of space. Seriously.
Stangcooper, glad to see your enjoying the thread. I suggest you simply put me on your ignore list. My opinions are no more or LESS important than yours.
Funny thing is I can guarantee you will continue to torture yourself by reading my threads!! I LOVE IT!!
BTW: Can you provide an explanation as to why this thread does not meet YOUR standards but might be interesting to others? I would really like to understand the logic behind these Fascist style attempts at censorship.
Although once again I have offended some, this thread has proved interesting. You guys brought up some good questions. For example yes alot of Japanese and German cars are built here using American labor. They are NOT using American technology however. Everything from the ground up is designed and engineered by the engineers in that organization. Odds Are they are primarily working from Germany. The Porsche Boxster is NOT built in Stuttgart, Porsche build a plant in Sweden or Norway to build the Boxsters.
If I have a choice of a Japanese car thats built in the US or in Japan I will take the one built in Japan ANY DAY. Its a fact that the Japanese have so much pride and dedication at their plants that the BIG THREE went over and tried their best to COPY the Japanese style of management and operations. The people who work at the car plants in Japan border on the fanatical. They consider the company a part of their family. In the US a jobs a job. Its cultural differances. The FORD ESCORT is a copy of the Honda Civic.
What is taken for granted in many large corporations such as "team leaders" and "team competition" all originated from within the Japanese style of corporate mangement. Its ironic since Japan rebuilt its economy after the war by "copying" products from the US and making them better. They got SO GOOD at it that the US now COPIES THEM!!
its not interesting
it isnt interesting, you just think it is.
My 94 Ranger had less rattles in it than my 03 Civic did. My 03 Civic has been to the dealer about 7 times fixing quality issues like warped roof panel, bad slave cylinder, even a leaking sunroof panel. So, I went back to American made cars, even if I get half the mileage now. I smell a troll that needs to give it a rest and go back to showing off his 88 CRX to his buddies at school. You know, since it is Japanese the quality must be WAY better than the 05 Mustang's.
The irony is that that the Japanese learned from the US how to build good cars. Have you all heard of the Deming Award? They took the idea and ran with it and the US car industry hasn't been the same since. And that's a good thing.
When the first Mustang hit the streets way back when I was a kid in high school in Japan. I knew a Japanese guy who imported a gold Mustang. With the 100% tariff imposed on imported American cars in those days he paid eight grand for the ride. More's the pity but I never got to drive it.
Then there was the time that a buddy of mine and I took a train to Tokyo for a double date. The girls--they were gaijin like us-- met us in a blue Mustang and I will never forget the sight of the most beautiful legs I had ever seen unfolding themselves from the back seat--but that's a story for another time and I'm way off topic here.
Would I buy a Mustang if it were made in Germany or Japan? You betcha unless the price made it non competitive, and that would be more likely only if the car came from Germany.
EXCOn, you're right, now don't let your head swell. American companies tried to copy Japanese management techniques, the sold their idea under the auspices of TQM (total quality management). But they left out a few very important aspects. The most important part ( to me at least ) is the pay differences between worker and supervisor. If I remember right it was around 5%. American companies werent going to dock the pay of senior sups or bring the pay of the average worker up, so the whole philosophy was a sham. The belief of TQM was that of every employee (even the trash guy ) had a say in what went on. Also when something went wrong everybody was wrong not the scapegoat.
The US Navy tried to adapt TQM to their liking in the 1990's, they called it TQL, basically a gutted version of TQM. Folks need to quit trying to reinvent the wheel and use what works.
OK back to topic, mustangs.. vroom - vroom.. displacement.. if you want a sports car buy a '65 daytona coupe, all else is crap.
Actually this hasn't been a problem in a number of years.
Back in the late 70's and 80's the big 3 arrogantly figured that they were untouchable and that they pretty much could do whatever they wanted. During this time, the Japanese automakers were instituing the very system that ExCon is describing here. Hense, the rise of the Japanese automobile empire. High quality/dependability, low price.
Well, it's been 20 years since the height of Japanese market share, why havn't the Japanese completely taken over the automotive market? Why are they losing marketshare to Ford and Chrysler/Dodge?
Because in the mid/late 80's the American automobile companies hunkered down and fixed thier manufacturing methods. They didn't copy the Japanese method exactly, but rather took the best parts of the Japanese and the best parts of the American processes and went back to playing the competitive free market game like good capitolists again. Something they really hadn't had to do with any real passion since the 30s.
Remember the early 80's? cars were meant to last no more than 10 years. By the time they were 10, they were rusted out falling apart, and dying. 100k miles on an engine was a lot. The Japanese movement changed that. Rusting was a problem that the Japanese cars had too, they just ran forever.
German cars were always good, but not always good for Americans. They'd run forever, yes, but often they were not robustly enginered enough for the ruggend American landscape (Volkwagen) or were too expensive to be very marketable(BMW).
Nowadays all of that has changed! American cars are far better built than they were, Japanese quality hasn't depreciated really, it's just that the competition has caught up. Ford actually leads in quality in a number of areas.
Though ExCon's statements were quite valid 20 years ago, I'm afraid they're a bit outdated nowadays.
Here are a couple links to go to to check out more info.
At JD Power, I looked up 2004 Taurus, Altima, Camry, and 5 Series Sedan. Ford was looking pretty good.
Yeah, go Ford!! *spits tobaccy and shoots gun off in the air* Yeehaawww!! Actually, it would be nice to have a smiley like that fur us okies!
Good One Merlin!! Yahooo!!! Mountain Dew!!!!
German cars are so tight because if you shoved a lump of coal up the typical German's behind, you'd have a diamond in less than a week. They can't stand things being "out of tolerance"! I think that same passion for conformity is also responsbile for millions of Holocaust dead. Think about that one the next time you utter the phrase "there is no substitute".
Build the Mustang anywhere you want...it's still an AMERICAN original!
Check it out, a lot of these wonderful Japanese and German cars are being designed by American engineers. The truth of the matter is, there are no more "American" "Japanese" "German" cars. It's all a big melting pot of talent from all over the world. And I think things will only get better. Unless the french get involved.
Misinformation and slanted bised oppinions by one indvidual leads to one of my favorite statments..........
" Ignorance is Bliss....... "
Check out Myblueoval, hes still living in the war years!! Kinda like those Japanese they found on remote islands 25 years after the war was over and they were still fighting!!
Military your dead right about cars being Global.
There is no US Built car anymore. These guys wrap themselves in the American flag and tell everyone its Unamerican to buy a car not US Built.
The Nissan Titan for example is built in the US AND USES 85 percent US PARTS! This truck won award after award when it came out. Why? Because Japanese Companies tend to spend alot more time and money designing and engineering their Assembly Plants and their Product. The Titan blew away the competition in comparisons but odds are that the mentality of a great percentage of "pick up truck owners" is not conducive to change. Can you imagine a small town in Texas population 540. Elroy goes out shoppin fer a new pickup. If that guy drove down Main St in a Nissan Titan he would probably be lynched!! The man KNOWS its a better machine but its not politically correct to buy one!! This mentality still persists in the 21st century. Simply look at Myblueovals War Years Comment!!
Subaru, Nissan, Toyota, BMW,Honda, Mercedes, they all build plants here in the states.
Funny thing is that when you want one of the BETTER MACHINES that these companies produce for example a Subaru WRX, a Honda S2000 or a Mercedes AMG they are ALL made in their country of origin. An AMG is NEVER ALLOWED to be built by a US Citizen. Its simply a matter of pride. Kinda like the sticker I was readin on my new Mustang that quality is job one while it was being towed away for repairs at 41 MILES!!
Remember back in the 80's when ford actually proposed a stang built by Mazda-a japanese stang. The outcry put that idea down quickly.
I got over that 'gotta buy american' stuff years ago. I'm buying a mustang for the same reasons most people will: 1) iconic body design; 2)power/sporty factor; 3)relative value. Because of these 3 factors I have been very pleased w/ my 3 previous stangs, and I've owned a lot of cars (british, german, japanese, and American) over the last 30 years, but I can't recall one that was perfect.
Sit down and STFU. When you get your engineering degree then Ill let you talk about inferior engineering