Just Bought One Of The Stranger Gt Foxes Out There!

Discussion in '1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk-' started by 99fummins, Jun 7, 2014.


  1. 99fummins

    99fummins New Member

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    Alright, so I picked this up last week to use for commuting to put less miles on my truck. It's originally a 5.0 5 speed car that has been converted to a 2.3n/a aod car :doh: I checked the vin, it is an original 5.0. So I'm looking for a little advice on it. My plan is to put a carb 302 in, talked myself out of a 351 for fuel economy sake. The car still has a clutch pedal in the floor, so I'm debating T5 or aod. I'm not going crazy with the motor, want to get it around 280 at the wheels. Will a factory aod hold? I know T5s are weak, but I'm not talking a lot of power to the ground either. Which would be the better option for mileage and longevity? Oh, the car does have 3.73 gears, subframe connectors, and a bbk lowering kit. Thanks!

    [​IMG]
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2014
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  2. dnbonds

    dnbonds Active Member

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    Wow, Did you atleast ask why they put a 2.3 in it?

    Sounds like they wanted the better gas mileage AND the style of a GT ;)

    I would go T5 especially since the clutch pedal is still there. I have an AOD and hate it, I desperately need a shift kit for it.
    #2
  3. Grabbin' Asphalt

    Grabbin' Asphalt Mustang Master

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    They had a nice engine in it and swapped the motor to sell it. Maybe they was putting it in a non mustang.
    #3
  4. 99fummins

    99fummins New Member

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    He said he swapped it about 6 months ago after he blew up his 306. Had a wrecked lx sitting around so he swapped powertrain. Thats his story at least.

    Im thinking t5 as well, if itll hold up alright and i can find one reasonable
    #4
  5. modulistic

    modulistic Member

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    Its more tempting than you think when you have a gutted out body and good running gear just sitting around. Check to see if he snuck the 7.5 axle in on you.
    #5
  6. mikestang63

    mikestang63 Mustang Master

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    Perfect candidate for a JY exlporer motor with a decent dual plane intake and a 650 Holley Carb. Swap out the cam and springs and you have a decent little motor. Yes the AOD will handle the power. Maybe put a shift kit and a trans cooler. Swap to 3.73 or 4.10's and let er rip.
    #6
  7. 99fummins

    99fummins New Member

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    8.8 i believe. Ya i have a line on an explorer motor with 70k miles that already has a 4 barrel intake and 1 wire gm distributor for 400.

    [​IMG]
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  8. 90lxwhite

    90lxwhite I'm kind of a She-Man

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    4.10's for commuting.....
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  9. stykthyn

    stykthyn Commander of the snuggie cultists

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    Yeah....if you like being in 5th great at 40mph
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  10. 99fummins

    99fummins New Member

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    I think 3.73s are low enough. I drive 120 miles a day on highways, dont wanna do that with 4.10s
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  11. gearheadboy

    gearheadboy Mod Dude

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    If keeping the miles off the truck is the goal go for it. It fuel economy is the plan you may as well start over. Calculate how long it will take to pay for itself in fuel savings. Initial purchase and all the stuff you are about to buy. No savings to be had.
    #11
    dnbonds likes this.
  12. 99fummins

    99fummins New Member

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    My goal is just to keep miles off the truck. I'll be happy with 15 or so mpg. I pulled the cover on the rear end last week and it's junk, so I pulled an sn95 3.27ls rear and front spindles/calipers and brake booster/master cylinder/proportioning valve. At least that will get the car road worthy again. I think the taller gears will be better, not only for fuel economy but for top-end. And disk rear and some nice 5 lug wheels will make the car look much better.

    There was an 86 mustang 5.0 in a yard up there with a t5 in it, would this potentially be a decent tranny? Looking for one that will hold up to roughly 280-300hp that's just street driven. They only wanted $100 for it.
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  13. 2000xp8

    2000xp8 Mustang Master

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    T5's are a crap shoot, i've seen ones from 4cyl cars last forever and z spec t5's break in a week. If it was a properly working trans $100 is a steal, if not you should be able to find a better donor for a rebuild at $100 any time.

    An sn95 rear is wider, so wheel and tire choice is going to have to be very accurate. Me personally i don't like that swap.

    As for the rear gears, imo, 3.27's have no benefits. 3.73's are just a better gear for a lower hp car.
    #13
  14. 99fummins

    99fummins New Member

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    Well if the t5 is there next time ill grab it. I plan on running s197 wheels which have a lot of offset so they shouldnt stick out too far.

    Down the road I want to go forced induction so the 3.27s should be good.
    #14
  15. 90lxwhite

    90lxwhite I'm kind of a She-Man

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    I'd run the 3:27's I believe. I think I wish I went that way instead of 3.73's when I swapped out the 2.73.
    #15
  16. jrichker

    jrichker StangNet's favorite TOOL SN Certified Technician Founding Member

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    If you live in an area that has emissions check, you will need to rethink your carb conversion plans. It won't legally pass no matter what you do.

    A word of warning on EFI to carb swaps: don’t expect to pass emissions in any state that does comprehensive smog inspections, because it won’t happen. Some states will not title or issue license plates to cars that have been converted from EFI to carb. Be aware that you are violating several Federal laws concerning the removal of pollution control equipment. If you operate the vehicle on public highways and get caught by state or federal law enforcement (doubtful, but possible) you could be subject to fines and imprisonment. You won't get any more power from a carb than you will from EFI.

    The following information is intended for informational purposes only. Operation of a motor vehicle modified in such as manner as described below should be limited to off road use only.

    Doing the swap: You must know how to read electrical diagrams and wire circuits properly to do the swap. Don’t take shortcuts or cut corners in the fabrication of the electrical or mechanical assemblies. If you do NASCAR quality work, the car will look good, run good and be as reliable as a carb’d car can be. Take pride in a job done with excellence.

    If you are one of those few people who do excellent work, please disregard my negative comments. They are not intended for you.

    Quality, quality, quality…
    Some of the motivation of my negative comments about EFI to carb has to do with the quality of electrical workmanship. A lot of the wiring “repairs” that I have seen on the road and in the junkyard looks like road kill. The other part of my negative view stems from people who can’t grasp the operation and tuning of EFI. Carbs have their own set of requirements and some learning is required to get the best performance. Every car is different and each installation needs to be tuned to get the best performance. Putting an “out of the box carb” or one from someone else’s car isn’t the way to success. There is no auto compensation for small variations in carbs like there is for EFI. Just throwing a carb on a car because you won’t bother to learn how EFI works is a poor excuse.


    Now that the rant is over, here’s some practical advice…

    1. Do not use an EFI in tank fuel pump with a carb. You will never get the pressure/flow regulated properly. If the add on pressure regulator fails, you will flood the engine with gas and wash all the oil off the cylinder walls. That will cost you big time $$$. Either go full EFI or use a tank/fuel pump/fuel lines out of an 84 or earlier Stang. Fabricating your own setup is possible but there are some snags to overcome.

    2. Do not attempt to leave the EFI computer in place in an attempt to control either the electric fuel pump or ignition. Doing so qualifies you for the “Road Kill Mechanics Award”.

    3. If you try to use your current tank, you will need to pull the fuel pump out and fabricate a pickup tube & strainer sock to replace the fuel pump. Or you can have a sump fabricated and welded onto you existing tank. Many welding shops will not weld fuel tanks because of the dangers involved if the tank isn't purged properly.

    4. You will need an external electric fuel pump unless you change the timing cover for one with the mechanical fuel pump mount on it. Rip all the EFI wiring out, and the computer controlled fuel pump won't work. You will need to add a relay & switch and wire in the existing inertia switch for an external low pressure electric fuel pump. Do not try to wire the fuel pump without the relay. The 15-20 amps the pump pulls will overload the circuit. This will take power away from other items on the same circuit or cause the fuse or fuse link to blow.

    5. [​IMG]

    6. You will need to run some new fuel feed lines or braided hose. The 3/8" aluminum tubing works well, but you will need a flaring tool and bending springs to fabricate the lines. Braided hose is easy to run and route, but is much more expensive. It is about $3.50-$4.00 a foot plus the end fittings, which are $3-$4 each. Fabricating hose assembles can be difficult, but anyplace that makes hydraulic hoses can do it for you for an extra charge. See http://www.amazonhose.com for more information.

    7. For some help fabricating your own stainless steel hose assemblies, see
    8. http://www.turbinefun.com/Stainless_Braided_Hose_Assembly.asp

    9. For stainless steel braided hose and fittings for automotive use:

    10. See http://www.summitracing.com/search/?keyword=stainless steel hose&dds=1
    11. http://www.summitracing.com/search/?keyword=stainless steel hose&dds=1

    12. http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stor...hall&searchTerm=stainless steel hose&x=18&y=4

    13. See http://www.eaton.com/Eaton/Product...rformanceProducts/FittingsProducts/index.htm for more information on High performance automotive hose products

    14. AN fittings require a 37 degree flaring tool. A standard automotive or household plumbing tool is 45 degrees and cannot be used with AN flare fittings. If you do, the flare is subjected to too much stress when the fitting is tightened, and is likely to fail or leak.

    15. See http://www.mscdirect.com/ , http://www.mcmaster.com/ or for the flaring tool you will need . Prices start at $85 and go up

    16. http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/N2DRVSH?PACACHE=000000013509163
    17. [​IMG]

    18. http://www.mcmaster.com/#flaring-tools/=b4fxc3
    19. [​IMG]

    20. Last time I was in Summit racing, they had a 37 degree flaring tool for less than $40. It may or may not be a catalog item.

    21. While you are at the electrical part, you'll need a Duraspark or similar ignition system. The 85 Mustang GT 5 speed has a suitable Duraspark distributor with a steel gear compatible with the roller camshaft. The EFI ignition depends on the EFI sensors to advance the spark. Rip out the TPS and MAP/Baro sensors and the computer will have no idea of the proper ignition timing for best performance. Running a fixed timing setting is only for test purposes or for a race track only car. Don't try it on the street: the results will not be nearly as good as a properly setup Duraspark or equal. Crane makes a really nice distributor for non-EFI applications. . See http://www.cranecams.com/index.php?show=browseParts&lvl=4&prt=127 for more information. Cost is about $400, which makes the 85 Mustang reman units look really appealing.


    Duraspark II ignition diagram:

    Diagram courtesy of /www.billwrigley.com
    [​IMG]
    See http://webpages.charter.net/1bad6t/duraspark.html for more help.
    Note the ballast resistor shown in the diagram: you’ll need that too


    22. Tools needed:
    23. Crimp tool for connector pins $9-$30 AutoZone, NAPA, Advance Auto Parts or other store
    24. 100-150 watt soldering gun (recommend WELLER 8200PK soldering gun kit 100/140W) $30 at Lowes or $40 at Home Depot
    25. 3/32”-1/8” rosin core electrical solder, 1/4 lb roll $6 at Ace Hardware, Home Depot or Lowes
    26. Assorted sizes of heat shrink tubing. Buy long pieces and cut length to fit. It is cheaper that way. http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage.cfm?&WebPage_ID=346&CFID=169547&CFTOKEN=34300345
    27. Hot air gun to shrink the tubing ($30-$40) Home Depot
    28. Jeweler’s screwdriver kit $5 at Ace Hardware
    29. Assorted automotive wire, 18-16 gauge 10’-20’ foot spools in different colors. $5 a roll at Advance Auto Parts.
    30. Ford connector pins AutoZone, NAPA or other store $5-$10 for a kit of 10-12 assorted pins

    31. You will have $110-$150 in materials and tools if you don't already have them.

    32. The water temp and oil pressure signals feed from the sender to the main harness through the 10 pin EFI engine harness. To utilize these senders, you need to identify the wires and find a way to reconnect them to the main harness after the EFI engine harness is removed. You need a weatherproof quick connector to join the sender wiring to the main harness.

    33. See the graphic for the 10 pin connector circuit layout.
    34. [​IMG]
    35. The injector power pin is the VPWR pin in the black 10 pin connector.


    36. You will need to construct a wiring harness from the ‘85 carb distributor to the Duraspark box if you go Duraspark, or other distributor to coil wiring.
    37. The voltmeter picks up its signal from the switched voltage present on the instrument panel, so you don’t need to worry about that.

    38. The fuel tank gauge is also independent of the computer wiring.

    39. AutoZone wiring diagrams can be found if you are willing to dig through the self help repair section of their website. http://www.autozone.com/autozone/re...3835D6CFF5E3A5037BBBD332CF445FF.diyprod2-b2c3

    40. How to solder like a pro - http://fordfuelinjection.com/?p=7 a must read for any automotive wiring job.

    41. Soldering pigtails onto existing pins is road kill quality work as far as I am concerned. Take some time to study the way the Ford connectors are assembled and you will find that a small jeweler’s screwdriver will release the pins from the connector shell. New pins and a crimping tool are available from the Standard Motor Parts or Bendix Electrical parts line that the NAPA & Bumper to Bumper Auto Parts stores carry. Ask any auto parts store about Standard Motor Products or Bendix Electrical wiring parts. Those that carry them will be able to get the parts you need. AutoZone has a cheap kit with 10 pins for about $5. Just enough pins to leave you short when assembling a connector.

    42. One of the interesting things about the Ford OEM wiring diagrams is that the connector shape on the drawing matches the connector shape in the car. That makes it easier to identify connectors and circuits. OEM Ford diagrams are available at for an 85 Mustang at http://www.helminc.com/helm/Result....edia=&mscsid=2M838NG3R5SR2MCS00A3HVE05T03C501 or can be found in the Chilton series of auto repair manuals for Mustangs.

    43. The following is an excellent idea from a fellow Stangnetter who tackled the wiring plan the right way. He obtained the wiring diagrams from an 85 carb'd V8 Mustang and laid them out side by side with the diagrams from his car. He then traced out each circuit and the wire colors and connectors associated with them. After tracing the circuit and connectors for a circuit, he laid out the changes he needed to make. One circuit at a time made a difficult big job into many smaller easy to manage jobs.

    44. Copied from pikapp33
    45. I recently changed my EFI mustang back to carb with MSD ignition, to save some money and go for a more simplistic approach. I researched, and found the best stock type distributor to use was from an 83 Bronco 5.0, which is a Duraspark (magnetic pickup, same as what MSD dists use), making it possible to use the 2 wire MSD trigger input, and also has a steel gear to work with the EFI hyd roller cam.

    I chose to use a Richporter FD30 ($85). Then added a BWD C194A Cap Adapter ($12) to use the Fox style dist cap/wires (the Richporter comes with cap/rotor, which I didn't use; other brands come without and are cheaper, but have a core as well; no core on this one). And then a BWD D166 rotor ($6) to match the cap adapter. I also chose to buy the MSD 8869 adapter wire ($20ish) to connect the dist to the MSD harness for my 6AL. All together about $125, much cheaper than the MSD billet dists, and am very happy with the quality of the the dist and the way the setup worked out.

    46. The Richporter FD30 distributor is available at Advance Auto Parts ($90) & O’Riley’s ($81)
    #16
  17. 99fummins

    99fummins New Member

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    Dang, lots of good information there. Thanks man. I'm still torn between carb and efi. It's most likely going to come down to what I find when I'm ready to buy. Right now I'm trying to get the car going down the road again with the 2.3/aod that's in it. I've seen lots of explorer motors cheap that I could use since I want to change cams and use gt40p heads/intake anyways, but I'd have to find all the front accessories off a mustang 5.0, and all the sensors. And if I can find all of those, then I've also found a motor with forged pistons which I would like for down the road if I go forced induction. So really I need to find a complete mass air mustang 5.0 and then p heads and an intake. Then I can go efi.

    If I do go carb, I'm not afraid of the swap. I swapped the 12 valve into my f350 and I think the wiring and everything turned out very well. It's not as difficult as some make it out to be. Plus I'm a mechanic and have a whole shop at my disposal.
    #17
  18. jrichker

    jrichker StangNet's favorite TOOL SN Certified Technician Founding Member

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    Best of luck in your adventure. Keep us informed on your progress...
    #18

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