Just how safe can you feasibly get a first generation Mustang to be?

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it basically comes down to this, you can make a classic stang somewhat safer than it was originally by adding collapsable steering columns, better seats and seat belts, different steering wheel (not that hard plastic thing), 4 wheel or at least front disc brakes, modern radial tires, fuel cell or a rear seat firewal and/or tank armor, brighter lights (head, tail, stop turn signal), louder horns, etc, etc but ultimately it will never be as safe as a modern car, no matter how much safer you make it, however, that is far, far from saying it will be unsafe. it all comes down to how safe you need to feel, because ultimately no car is ever going to "safe" unless it's kept in the garage and never driven and that is about as safe as any car will ever be, even then the garage could catch on fire or the roof could collapse or another car could could drive through your garage even, now that would be the ultimate safety irony there :rlaugh:.
 
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Yeah, you can definitely build the car safer, have modern conveniences, and make it as comfortable as a modern car, yet, keep the "classic car" look, but the trade off is it can get really expensive if you can't do it yourself, and it can also be expensive even *IF* you can do it yourself.
I know this is gonna start a HUGE flame-war, but I disagree. Look, I love my Mustang and I really enjoy driving it, more than I enjoy driving anything else I've ever owned in my life. But the reality is, there simply is no possible way to make a vintage Mustang as good as a new car, as far as safety, comfort, handling and convenience goes. No amount of money or talent can or will perform this miracle. I know it all sounds easy, but it won't happen. Want some examples? Just this week, my wife and I needed to take a trip to SF, and since we'd been considering a new car, I rented an '08 Charger to make the trip. Nothing fancy, just a plain-Jane, V6 Charger with nearly no options. When it comes time to buy, I want an RT Charger, but this is what Enterprise had, so this is what we rented. This car is fairly low, but the ride was perfect. Not too stiff, not too soft, perfect. The brakes are the absolute best I've ever used. Anyone who's ever driven in a Bay area freeway at rush hour on a friday can tell you, it's 75 mph one second, zero the next. Yet these brakes took only a touch of the toe to haul that thing down from high speed to nothing with NO drama. I've driven cars with stout brakes before, but never with that level of control. Handling was unreal as well. Mind you, this is not a light car, nor was it mine, and I drove it just like any other rental car. Yet it wasn't bumpy, didn't bottom or bounce and felt unreal at any speed, high, low, in a corner or on a choppy concrete freeway, it was stable, comfy and balanced. The steering took minimal effort, but had perfect feedback. There were no flaws that I could find anywhere with it's manners. Now I know full well that someone out there is thinking about typing about the awesome handling of their early Mustang, or the killer brakes or whatever. But before you tell me what an idiot I am, ask yourself this: is the cornering ability due to overly stiff springs that jar your fillings out? Are the brakes about as progressive as a light switch? Maybe you're a wizard, and you've managed to get superb handling and a civil ride, and maybe your car is also equipped with a zillion dollars worth of brakes that are without a single flaw. Does that make it the equivalent of a newer car and just as good for a daily commute? How's the headroom? How's the rear seat access? Is it quiet inside? Can you drive it for several hours without needing medical attention afterwards? Would you put your newborn son or daughter in it for a trip through nasty traffic at rush hour? Can you even put a baby seat in it?
Let's face it, older Mustangs are great cars and are worthy of every ounce of respect and love they get. But they are also cars that were built as cheaply as possible, corners were cut at every possible chance when they were new, and here we are expecting them to somehow compete with cars with modern technology, in areas our sucked at when they were new? Not gonna happen. BTW, that bottom-of-the-line Charger I rented? Enterprise had a brochure offering several of them for sale at $14,500. When somone thinks they can build their Mustang to compete with modern cars, don't forget to include that as a price limit.
 
Sorry, but i agree with them. Safety will never be the same as a new car. It just won't they were built differently.

I live in Los Angeles and every once in a while the speeds go from 65 to 0 and believe me its scary, keeping in mind i have power brakes and drum brakes. I almost had to pull in the emergency lane to stop in time.

In the end you will spend more of your time and money trying to get this old car up to today's safety standards than the cost of a new car. You're not taking into account the value of your own time. Not to mention how long it will take to do all those mods.

I think that the challengers (especially), chargers, rx-8s all have done a good job in terms of looks. i'm still on the fence with the newer mustangs.

For me i've gotten to the point where I've realized that there's nothing more i can do. if you get hit hard enough by any car, no saftey standards will protect you. I try and drive as safe as possible, but i avoid driving in the rain, people get 100 times crazier. Luckily my family has an extra car, but the likelihood of me having this as an only means of transportation wouldn't work out, it breaks down too much. It is an awesome weekend/ show off car though and a real treat to drive.
 
Your friends are caught up in :bs: politics.
They believe that newer cars are safer.
Antilock brakes do help keep you straight but it takes 3 times longer to stop than none antilock, Insurance companys have tested this and is a fact that there are a lot more front end damaged cars due to antilock brakes. I have antilock on my rodeo and I live in the mountains with a long driveway down hill and they almost killed me a few times as they wont let the wheels lock when sliding and you roll right out into traffic with No brakes.
The sheet metal on new cars is paper thin, thats why you need air bags. they call this thin sheet metal CRUSH PANELS, this is why you die in a accident, even with a airbag.
Now AIR BAGS, This is just a bomb inches from your face, it throws plastic and metal into your face and kills children, if you wear glasses you will probably be blind after a airbag goes off. If you get hit hard enough to set a airbag off you will probably die because the crush panels will slice you to pieces.
How many recalls on new cars today for China built junk parts like tie rod ends that come apart while driving or seat belt latches that unlatch when in a accident or paper thin gas tanks that a stone can punchure or tires that come apart at 60 mph and roll you over or seats that rip off the floor in a accident or all plastic dashes that explode into razor sharp pieces when hit.
I can go on but I hope you get the point.
Not a whole lot (if any) truth in this whole post. ABS brakes stop faster, wet, dry, curved or straight. Where did you pull that "3 times longer" stat out of?
Crumple zones are parts of newer cars designed to absorb energy during an impact so that the passenger zone is as unaffected as possible, thereby increasing the survivability of the crash.
Airbags inflate and deflate so quickly, it's virtually impossible to see them, let alone feel them. Ask my brother, he's spent three sets of airbags in the past several years, and says that aside from the smell, he's never sensed anything. Pretty far from the plastic-spewing Claymore mine you describe. Your's sounds more dramatic, though.
Cars are tested and retested by car companies, then retested some more by consumer agencies not connected to any car company to make them as safe as possible. Older cars were never tested to any extend in crash-worthiness. A look at any '60's dash will prove that. I once walked away from a 70mph, combined speed head-on impact with another car. Had I been in my Mustang, I certainly would've been killed. As it was, I just bought another car. Yes, it was a paper-thin sheetmetal car (no air bags) and no, I was not sliced to ribbons. The seatbelts held nicely, and I didn't even get a scratch. Cars are safer today, it's as simple as that.
 
I live in Los Angeles and every once in a while the speeds go from 65 to 0 and believe me its scary, keeping in mind i have power brakes and drum brakes. I almost had to pull in the emergency lane to stop in time.

More than not, this situation is usually because of driver inattention to traffic flow up ahead. I'm no saint and have been guilty of this a few times too. It only took one time in my 67 coupe of locking up the front discs and having my rear come around and trying to be the front side on the freeway to be more cautious.

I agree that anti lock brakes will help you stop straighter, but all you have to do is see all the rear end collisions in the fast lane of the 60 Fwy near the construction zones and that will tell you that new technology won't save your butt when you tailgate.
 
Tough decision.

zookeeper Put a fuel cell in it, good seatbelts, the best brakes and steering you can afford and act just as you would with a motorcycle on the street. Assume you're invisible, think everyone's out to get you and drive carefully. People used them as daily drivers when they were new and seemed to survive.

I agree w/ zookeeper. Even in his later posts, they built them as fast and as cheaply as they could.

SF is a neat city, I lived there for 3 months back in my Navy days. But any big city is rife w/ thieves.

Years ago you could get an ABS kit that was a hydraulic/mechanical unit that had to be tuned to your car. I saw it in a book titled How to Make your Car Handle.

To my knowledge most race cars do not have air bags. Just a thought on safety.

If you want a classic as a daily driver there will be things you will have to live with period w/o having to spend big bucks. If money is no problem go for it!
 
I think the bottom line is you should do what you want. Safety has more to do with driver decisions (use your head) than anything else. If someone in a very large vehicle hits you it won't matter what safety equipment you have. If you drive in the right areas, keep adequate space around you and drive defensively, you will avoid many potential dangers.

Also, decent brakes and suspension so that your car can outstop and out turn the other traffic are a good idea IMO. That's about all I would be concerned with for adequate safety, other than thinking when you are driving.

Now, there is a line between sensible and foolish here. I think air bags are an example of government legislating more cost into vehicles in ways that don't necessarily enhance safety. An air bag will help you as long as you are the right weight and height and set your seat the way the designer envisioned and your car is hit from the right angle, etc. For every other situation the air bag has a chance of hurting you worse than no air bag.

Not to get too overly political here, but I really hate the fact that people talk like you can somehow make life "safe" and protect idiots. How many companies have been driven out of business by this way of thinking?
 
I started my car's transformation in November 2002. It didn't drive again until labor day weekend 2006 and I've continued to modernize it ever since.

I've added power 4 wdb with new booster, hard and soft lines, MC, distribution block, adjustable proportioning valve, rear calipers and both front and rear rotors. The front calipers were used low mileage 'Vette pieces from a wrecking yard. The brakes are very well balanced. I've had a couple of panic stops and the car stayed perfectly straight.

The power r&p steering is a rebuilt GM J car unit. I designed all the steering and front suspension myself so all the pieces are new: upper and lower control arms, coil over shocks, springs, strut rods and anti sway bar. It took several years and cost about 3 times what it would have cost to buy an OTS r&p and c/o front suspension kit today.

My newly built 408 makes tons of power, starts every time (even when it was 16*F outside) and doesn't overheat in traffic on the hottest summer day. However, I've had problems with the rear main seal leaking since day one. It's not too bad, but it shouldn't be leaking at all given how new it is. It also looks like there's some blow-by already as there's an oil film around the breather cap. I've had to rebuild the top end twice; once because I over revved it at an open track event, and once because a valve spring broke for no apparent reason. The ignition is a "modern" Duraspark II conversion and is rock solid reliable. I rebuilt my TR3550 into a TKO. It leaks; not too bad, but still, it leaks. I threw in a new clutch, pp, TO bearing, slip yoke, u-joints and driveshaft. All of the accessories are rebuilt: power steering pump (the ps doesn't leak anywhere!!), alternator, and AC compressor. The rear has new gears and bearings and a rebuilt Trac-lok. It also leaks. Almost all of the wiring has been replaced (everything except for the main underdash harness and the clock harness are new repros). The lights have been converted to H4 halogens with a relay. I have 4 point harnesses that attach to a rollbar. The aftermarket seats have much better support than the originals.

After spending over 6 years and around $30K, it's almost as reliable, and almost as safe as a modern car (that leaks). It's WAY more cool!! It's not designed to be as comfortable as a modern rental car, but it's plenty comfortable enough for me, even on long trips. I drive it every day it doesn't rain and it's an absolute blast. You can never be 100% safe when there are idiots driving everywhere. I've been rear-ended twice in the last 7 years (once in my truck, once in the 'stang). Both times I was stopped at a red light.

I work on a military base, so I don't have to worry about it getting stolen like I would if I parked out in a public parking lot somewhere. That would be my biggest concern if it was my only transportation. I don't let my son drive it at all (he's 17). I don't let him drive my truck unless I'm in it because I can't take a chance on losing my only truly reliable transportation. Bottom line though is, you do need 2 cars. Drive it everyday you can, but have a modern backup.
 
Common sense rules. :nice:

I don't care how many new fangled safety devices there are on a car. If a fool is behind the wheel nothing will matter.

I've driven my 67 coupe for weeks at a time to and from work, shopping, etc. No A.C., no power steering. crappy Kelsey Hayes disc brakes, but enjoyed every minute of it.

i agree, the best safety device in an automobile is the nut behind the wheel. i drove my 64 falcon across the country and back, pulling a small trailer, and with a broken transmission(it is the 2.77 pos) with few issues. the ride was reasonably comfortable, the four wheel drum brakes did very well, even in the snow. is it as safe as my moms 97 sable? no, but then the sable doesnt get the attention the falcon does.

I think the bottom line is you should do what you want. Safety has more to do with driver decisions (use your head) than anything else. If someone in a very large vehicle hits you it won't matter what safety equipment you have. If you drive in the right areas, keep adequate space around you and drive defensively, you will avoid many potential dangers.

Also, decent brakes and suspension so that your car can outstop and out turn the other traffic are a good idea IMO. That's about all I would be concerned with for adequate safety, other than thinking when you are driving.

Now, there is a line between sensible and foolish here. I think air bags are an example of government legislating more cost into vehicles in ways that don't necessarily enhance safety. An air bag will help you as long as you are the right weight and height and set your seat the way the designer envisioned and your car is hit from the right angle, etc. For every other situation the air bag has a chance of hurting you worse than no air bag.

Not to get too overly political here, but I really hate the fact that people talk like you can somehow make life "safe" and protect idiots. How many companies have been driven out of business by this way of thinking?

well said hack. you can update a vintage car to more modern safety standards, adding disc brakes, stiffening up the chassis, adding a collapsable steering column, better seat belts, better seats, retune the suspension, etc. in the end you still have a vintage car, and thus you have to be on your game when behind the wheel. you should be anyway even in a new car.

remember that the best drivers dont stop driving the car until it is parked, shut down, and you can gotten out of the car and are heading into the house, place of business, etc.
 
2ndMustang, Hack & Rbohm nailed it! (IMO)

I'll venture into this hornets nest, in agreement with 2ndMustang, Hack & rbohm.
It's the loose nut behind the wheel, that is the number one safety related concern... :nice:

Those who drive like a Spider Monkey jacked up on Mountain Dew, will *hopefully* not live long enough to reproduce. :D
 
no amount of anything can save from you someone who's not paying attention. a lot of people blame wrecks on cell phones, or the people talking on them but in reality it has nothing to do with the phone at all, nor the that the person is talking on it, in reality that person talking on the cell phone would be doing something else to cause the wreck, spilling their mcdonalds coffee in their lap, dropping their lit cigarette in their lap, putting their make-up on, reading the newspaper on their way to work, etc, etc. just like guns don't kill people, people kill people, it's the same with cars, cars don't kill people, people kill people. it doesn't matter how safe your car is, when it's your turn to cross the river styx, it's you turn...period.

you can add any kind of safety device you want to your car but in reality all you are really doing is protecting yourself from....who? yourself, that's who. sure, you can say that the airbag saved your life but in reality if YOU had been paying a little bit more attention YOU would have seen the chick talking on the phone, putting on her make-up, reading the paper and simultaneously spilling her coffee and dropping her lit cigarette in her lap. i'm just as guilty as anyone from both sides of the wheel and i've learned from my own mistakes and the mistakes of others to be more aware but even still sometimes i'm still now as aware as i should be, aware enough to keep from getting caught in an accident or starting one but sometimes only barely.

if you read the above 2 paragraphs you will know that a new car is no safer than an old car BUT an old car will never ne as safe as a new car, no matter what you do to it. will that keep from driving old cars almost exclusively? hell no, cause when it's my turn to pay the ferry man it's my turn and i might as well go out happy, right? right!!!!

i will still do as many improvements as i can to protect me from myself and make my classic more comfortable, more fuel efficient, handle better, look cooler and be more convenient and i still won't have a car payment every month, if i choose to spend the money i would otherwise be out for a car payment on upgrades to the car then so be it, but if money is tight one month and i can't afford my car "payment" at least it won't get repo'ed or i won't have to starve to pay it.

if anyone doubts anything i just said go and ask a car engineer who they are trying to protect you from when you get in one of their cars and they'll almost without a doubt unanamously say "YOU"!!!!!!! you could also ask your priest and probably get the same answer.
 
He drives an ultra safe modern top of the line Acura with child safeties out the wazoo. But he's had as many old muscle cars as the rest of us. I think there's an implied warning here... "We remember your '72 Maverick Billy"... We want you to spend as much time as possible with your nephews... but we MUST feel that they are safe in your car." My brother goes on to add that I should feel the same way when it comes to meeting and dating women.

Billy,
Nothing personal, but your brother sounds a little anal about safety. If you're a good driver, and I assume you are, he should have no problem with what you drive. He should get over himself. Having said that I agree with Hack about safety. Bnickel has some good points too.

When my kids were young I had no problems with them riding in my 69 or my 79. We often traveled in my 79. My 69 was my DD till I started to rebuild it. I drove my 79 (302 mild roller cammed, Holley carbed) daily for 6 years with no more problems than I have with my 2000 ZX2 I have been driving daily (108K mi) since I bought it over 6 years ago. When I'm done with the 69 it will resume DD duty again, snow, rain or shine. When it gets worn out again, I'll rebuild it. As said before, you can't protect yourself from all the idiots out there.

That is funny. One of the things I like about my car is that my wife has no desire to drive it due to it's rough edges. It does not have PS or PB, but does have 4 wheel disc. She is a little intimidated by the power too.:shrug:

X2

mrmustangman357
I'm not saying these old cars aren't fun and can't be reliable, but you are still taking a gamble with an older car.

The gamble is no greater than buying any used car. I had a high mileage 89 T-bird (wife's car) that was unreliable. On the other hand I also had a 90 E-150 conversion van I bought with 100K on the clock. We traveled a lot with it and it did DD duty for me at the same time till the engine stopped holding oil press at 245K mi.
 
Here is my 2 cents as far as safety is concerned. Air bags are evil and a 4 or 5 point harness will do far more for your safety in a car then any air bag could. Subframe connectors and a roll bar or small cage will do WAY more for you then any crumple zones.

You can put IRS in a classic for 5 grand easily and safely, it shouldn't even take 5 grand total. As far as ABS goes, I've already figured out how to put ABS in a classic, its actually rather simple... it just requires a lot of parts and that cost can add up. I havn't figured out how to get ABS and IRS in the same car yet....

Now, I would say that it is really just time for you to either wait until you have a place you can do a good majority of the work on the car. If you feel like you are ok with paying a shop to do almost everything for you then I guess, go for it. Just remember, everything will take 5x longer then you think to complete and cost at least 3x as much.
 
Me Too!

I also want to have a classic Mustang, that has been "modernized" for safety and drivability. When it is finished, I plan to use it as my "daily driver".
I want a car that will be comfortable, reasonably quiet, economical, reliable, handle very well, but still have enough power to be fun to drive.
I am currently working on this car which I hope to have drivable in the next year or so.
The car is one of 2 65 fastbacks which I currently own. One is my daily driver, and the other is my "project" which I will be upgrading with the following (new) items, most of which I have already purchased:

08 GT engine (I also have the kit from Ford Racing to install this engine in the 65)
3650 Tremec 5 speed
flywheel, clutch, and throwout bearing
hydraulic clutch master and slave cylinders
driveshaft and U joints
9 inch rear end
exhaust system
aluminum radiator
hoses, and electric cooling fan
TCI front and rear coil over suspension with front and rear sway bars, sub frame connectors, disc brakes, and power R&P steering
Autometer gauges
dual master cylinder, proportioning valve, and new brake lines/hoses
fuel tank, sending unit, high pressure fuel pump, and fuel lines
windshield and side window glass
complete Pony interior, with roll bar and 4 point safety harness.
08 Bullett 17" wheels, and General Ultra High Performance radial tires
"Vintage" Classic AC system
66 Shelby GT 350 rear quarter windows

I am sure there will be other mods as the build progresses (any suggestions?)When completed, this car will be a restored automobile.
Since the entire drivetrain and electronics will be new, I don't think I will need a backup car for a very long time.
As far as safety goes, the car's roll bar, safety harness, handling agility, stopping power, and my years of driving experience will go a very long way towards being safe ( I have been a defensive driving instructor in the past, so I know a few things about that subject)
As far as cost goes, I expect I will have around $15k in parts and materials invested in my "restomod". Labor will be free since I will do the whole project myself including the paint, body work, and interior.

I want to thank anyone who takes the time to read this, and I welcome any comments both positive or negative.

Zig
 
I also want to have a classic Mustang, that has been "modernized" for safety and drivability. When it is finished, I plan to use it as my "daily driver".
I want a car that will be comfortable, reasonably quiet, economical, reliable, handle very well, but still have enough power to be fun to drive.
I am currently working on this car which I hope to have drivable in the next year or so.
The car is one of 2 65 fastbacks which I currently own. One is my daily driver, and the other is my "project" which I will be upgrading with the following (new) items, most of which I have already purchased:

08 GT engine (I also have the kit from Ford Racing to install this engine in the 65)
3650 Tremec 5 speed
flywheel, clutch, and throwout bearing
hydraulic clutch master and slave cylinders
driveshaft and U joints
9 inch rear end
exhaust system
aluminum radiator
hoses, and electric cooling fan
TCI front and rear coil over suspension with front and rear sway bars, sub frame connectors, disc brakes, and power R&P steering
Autometer gauges
dual master cylinder, proportioning valve, and new brake lines/hoses
fuel tank, sending unit, high pressure fuel pump, and fuel lines
windshield and side window glass
complete Pony interior, with roll bar and 4 point safety harness.
08 Bullett 17" wheels, and General Ultra High Performance radial tires
"Vintage" Classic AC system
66 Shelby GT 350 rear quarter windows

I am sure there will be other mods as the build progresses (any suggestions?)When completed, this car will be a restored automobile.
Since the entire drivetrain and electronics will be new, I don't think I will need a backup car for a very long time.
As far as safety goes, the car's roll bar, safety harness, handling agility, stopping power, and my years of driving experience will go a very long way towards being safe ( I have been a defensive driving instructor in the past, so I know a few things about that subject)
As far as cost goes, I expect I will have around $15k in parts and materials invested in my "restomod". Labor will be free since I will do the whole project myself including the paint, body work, and interior.

I want to thank anyone who takes the time to read this, and I welcome any comments both positive or negative.

Zig

ford racing has a kit to install an 08 engine into a 66?
 
I also want to have a classic Mustang, that has been "modernized" for safety and drivability. When it is finished, I plan to use it as my "daily driver".
I want a car that will be comfortable, reasonably quiet, economical, reliable, handle very well, but still have enough power to be fun to drive.
I am currently working on this car which I hope to have drivable in the next year or so.
The car is one of 2 65 fastbacks which I currently own. One is my daily driver, and the other is my "project" which I will be upgrading with the following (new) items, most of which I have already purchased:

08 GT engine (I also have the kit from Ford Racing to install this engine in the 65)
3650 Tremec 5 speed
flywheel, clutch, and throwout bearing
hydraulic clutch master and slave cylinders
driveshaft and U joints
9 inch rear end
exhaust system
aluminum radiator
hoses, and electric cooling fan
TCI front and rear coil over suspension with front and rear sway bars, sub frame connectors, disc brakes, and power R&P steering
Autometer gauges
dual master cylinder, proportioning valve, and new brake lines/hoses
fuel tank, sending unit, high pressure fuel pump, and fuel lines
windshield and side window glass
complete Pony interior, with roll bar and 4 point safety harness.
08 Bullett 17" wheels, and General Ultra High Performance radial tires
"Vintage" Classic AC system
66 Shelby GT 350 rear quarter windows

I am sure there will be other mods as the build progresses (any suggestions?)When completed, this car will be a restored automobile.
Since the entire drivetrain and electronics will be new, I don't think I will need a backup car for a very long time.
As far as safety goes, the car's roll bar, safety harness, handling agility, stopping power, and my years of driving experience will go a very long way towards being safe ( I have been a defensive driving instructor in the past, so I know a few things about that subject)
As far as cost goes, I expect I will have around $15k in parts and materials invested in my "restomod". Labor will be free since I will do the whole project myself including the paint, body work, and interior.

I want to thank anyone who takes the time to read this, and I welcome any comments both positive or negative.

Zig


See I need to find some dude like this who's going through a divorce or has run into legal troubles! :D
 
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