>>> Kenne Bell 2V twinscrew SC is here!!!!!

Discussion in 'SN95 4.6L Mustang Tech' started by Red Dragon, Aug 1, 2003.


  1. tait_gt2002

    tait_gt2002 New Member

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    My bad, I didn't mean for it to come out that way either, I was just joking. Where's the 'oops' smiley when you need it?
     
    #81
  2. TJM01

    TJM01 Patience is a GD virtue Founding Member

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    Hey Red Dragon - I sent you a PM could you please take a look when you get a chance.

    Thanks
     
    #82
  3. White360RFnSwee

    White360RFnSwee Founding Member

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    uh..

    Kenne Bell isnt a Roots.. its a twin screw.. and they can make up to 25 psi... so what exactly are you talking about?

    You'll see how great this kit really is once it is put on and dynod.. I expect it to have the quickness of a roots but the high end power of a centi charger.

    -Ryan
     
    #83
  4. Red Dragon

    Red Dragon New Member

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    Well, the supercharger part is done. I was going to put the cold air kit on, but the directions for that piece sucked and did not make sense. I can leave it off and use the stock air filter for now.

    Has anybody put on KB's cold air kit? Can you maybe throw a little info my way? Any pics of this? It looks like a cob-job to me. The quality of the cold air kit does not keep in-line with the quality of the supercharger. Hmmmm, do you think it was an after-thought? They do not replace the stock piece between the MAF and throttle body. Hmmmm, not good folks. The filter will also hang loose inside my fender. WTF? I am anal with having things bopping around on my car; everything must be fastened down! I might have to send that cold air kit back and get something better. I will wait and call KB on this at a later time.

    I have to put the intercooler on and install the fuel pump boost kit, then she will be ready to fire up. I have a few things to do today before I can get back to it, however. And I want to take my time with the intercooler radiator piece that has to be mounted behind my Saleen front bumper.

    Thanks for all of the support Stangers! As for the web cam idea, I had thought about it, but believe me, this install process can be BOOOORING to watch! There is a lot of "dead time" reading and re-reading the manual, documenting changes and problems, and fitting pieces.

    It's funny the way things work out. My oldest son was supposed to help me put it on. As luck would have it, he got a job the day the blower came in. We are both bumming over that and it has slowed me down; doing most of it by myself. Now, with that said, picture this..... me, my wife, and my 13 year old son trying to pick up the main blower unit and put it on the engine. Now, THAT would have been a Web Cam shot for sure! :D As a note, the unit can not go straight down. It has to go over to the passenger's side about 1/2 inch, then down and back over to the driver's side, then down for the final contact. My wife is a saint, I tell ya! Kinda funny, the first KB 2V install and it was partially done by an old lady. :rlaugh:

    Hey, at least I got it on. I am greatful for the little help I got. Not many wifes out there would even be speaking to their husbands after such a purchase, much less help to lift it on. (and no, she is not burly and has never worked on a car in her life) I think she felt sorry for me. :p

    I sure hope that intake gasket on the driver's side survived. When we tried to go straight down, the bottom of the blower unit kept hitting the inner edge of the intake gasket near the thermostat flange, flipping it up and out of the alignment pins. We had it lying flat and in place when we finally figured out that the unit had to shift over, go down a little, shift back over, then down. We were as carefull as could be expected when you have 75 Lbs of dead weight being suspened only by arms that are fully extended. In hind-site, an engine hoist would be great if there is one lying around. I also would not mount the fuel rail and injectors outside of the car. It just added extra weight and got in the way of the EGR tube, which caused other problems with getting the blower on. The EGR needed to be bent a little out of the way. A forth set of arms would have helped to keep that out of the way.

    All-in-all, it is still going well. As I said before, there were a couple of documentation errors, but very few. I am sure KB will polish up the procedure each week as the field information comes in. I plan to document a lot of the changes for them. That will be my contribution to the fellas/gals/old-wives that install after me. I will also suggest to KB to put in one extra bolt or nut for each type needed. Pictures of bolts, like the Tiawanese manuals include, would also be helpful, along with an inventory of parts. I like to lay out all of my parts ahead of time before I start, so if there are parts missing, it is not in the middle of the install. I also wish they would have bagged the parts differently. Each bag should have the bracket or part WITH the related hardware (clamps, nuts, bolts, etc.). This would save a lot of time looking and measuring and re-reading to be assured you have the right nut, or other piece of hardware. Labeling the bags would also be part of that as well.

    Somebody mentioned the alternator. The manual said there were no fabrications, or grinding. Well, the alternator has to be ground down in one spot. This is very easy to do, however. If the alternator goes bad on the road, I will have to remember to do this. I don't like that part. Because of the placement of the alternator, I don't see a way around it, but I did not spend any time trying to figure out a better way. Alternators are very reliable these days, so it will probably never be an issue.

    I have never installed a centrifugal blower, but from looking at others' pictures, I have to conclude that the twin screw is at least twice as difficult to install. It is a serious installation. NOT hard, just very time consuming. I can't imagine doing it with bad directions (or worse, NO directions). Even thought there were some documentation mistakes, they really did try to do a thorough job. My notes will help and I hope they integrate them.

    One note I made is critical. The manual states to tighten down some bolts to draw the intake forward, after which you have to torque the intake down. If you do that, the front of the intake will not tighten down in the front! The draw-down bolts in the front MUST be slightly loosened (not loose, just not tight) so as to hold the intake forward, but allowing the front of the intake to be torqued down. If this is not done, then write the job as "hosed", because that intake will surely leak. I caught this mistake only because I analize everything to-death and I used to be a mechanic. I have built hundreds of engines and have seen my share of screw-ups. That intake also had to be torqued at least 4 times before no changes were noted in the torque. Take your time with this step; it is crucial! I still want to go out and get a new tool for one VERY difficult to reach bolt that can not be torqued down because of where it is. I might be able to make the tool myself when I have time. KB needs to also put that bolt in place BEFORE putting the blower onto the intake. Otherwise, you will have to grind the bolt head like I did. The draw-back to this is trying to position the whole unit when placing it down onto the engine. The bolt sticking through might get in the way. To get around this, put a rubber band around the shaft of the bolt so it can't slide down.

    Well, I gotta go if I am ever going to get this done. I just wanted to take a few minutes to update everyone because there is so much interest. Stay tuned, the Red Dragon is waiting to breath!
     
    #84
  5. FalconGTHO

    FalconGTHO Founding Member

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    Packaging is a plus for KB. "Instant boost" another.

    Vortech has a higher possible boost level that is easier to reach.

    Vortech, et al, for drags, KB for street.

    Thats how it breaks down.

    For me at least.
     
    #85
  6. WLD_WST

    WLD_WST Founding Member

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    Your right about end cost being comparable, but going with the Novi I don't have to pay as much up front. I don't like putting speed parts on my CC's so I pay cash up front. And since I'm going with water injection rather then an IC I'll save a little that way too.
     
    #86
  7. 2000GTnoExtras

    2000GTnoExtras Founding Member

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    Water/Alcohol injection w/6psi KB kit would be really nice too.
     
    #87
  8. Ryan L

    Ryan L Founding Member

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    Can your Novi get your GT to 400rwhp on 9psi? Does your Novi make full boost by 3k RPM and hold until redline? Doubt it. I'm not even going to mention the torque differences either.

    KB = teh win. :banana:
     
    #88
  9. VoodooChi|d

    VoodooChi|d Pedophile

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    :stupid:
     
    #89
  10. 2000GTnoExtras

    2000GTnoExtras Founding Member

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    Translation: The KB twin screw design is more efficeint than a centrifugal SC. The KB blower will draw less power from the engine to produce the same boost levels.
     
    #90
  11. Ryan L

    Ryan L Founding Member

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    :nice:
     
    #91
  12. BrightBlue00GT

    BrightBlue00GT I am even OLDER than Hawk!

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    Red Dragon - did you get my PM? Great info on the instruction modifications, will really help when I start mine. Any chance of getting that parts/equip list from you when you get a chance?
     
    #92
  13. tait_gt2002

    tait_gt2002 New Member

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    It is a roots type blower, but I'm still amazed at how efficient they are. Just never expected even a twin screw design to be as good as they have proven to be.
     
    #93
  14. Michael Johnson

    Michael Johnson Founding Member

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    The main difference between a Root's and a twin screw is the twin screw compresses the air in the blower case while the Root's moves a volume of air to the discharge manifold where the compression occurs. While this seems like a minor difference it is actually quite big in regards to efficiency and heat reduction from compression of the air. Twin screws are one of the, if not the most, efficient superchargers sold.

    I think the '03 Cobras have really demonstrated the capabilities of the twin screws. Seeing them produce 600-700 rwhp/torque with minor mods has surprised many people. For the Mustangs, the KB kits have lacked an intercooler which has limited the amount of boost they can safely run. Many took this as proof they couldn't run high boost levels which simply isn't true. IMO, KB seems to have made a very good effort with the 4.6L 2V kit. It uses the most efficient rotor design with intercooling which should prove very potent.
     
    #94
  15. Oldguy

    Oldguy New Member

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    It depends on what you want to do. Until the Kenne Bell kit was released it was a really tough choice for a road racer like me. For drag racers it's a fairly easy choice, go with Cobra Killer's Steeda tuned Vortech. Now that the KB kit is out, it's a wait and see deal for me to see if the KB kit really works.

    I put together some numbers that I gathered up. The Vortech/Steeda numbers are from an actual dyno sheet that one of the Cobra Killer guys posted. The Allen and Kenne Bell numbers come from their published dyno charts. I also calculated the area under the curves. Using the Vortech area as 100%, the Allen came in at 105%, and the KB at 122%.

    Hope this helps.

    Oldguy
     

    Attached Files:

    #95
  16. FalconGTHO

    FalconGTHO Founding Member

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    No, its a "positive displacement" blower. Roots is Roots. A twin lobed design. Improved from the first iteration by the use of twisted lobes that mesh closer with less "shock heating" from the lobes beating the air.

    Roots compresses the air within the plenum. A screw compresses the air within the blower case. Since there is no heating due to "battering" the air from lobes, the only heating is from the compression itself. THATS the key factor in its efficiency.

    The first time I read about a screw back circa 88 or so, I KNEW it was the way to go. Ive wanted one ever since, not matter WHAT V8 I had or was going to have.

    EDIT: :doh: Just read the next post after Tait.
     
    #96
  17. Red Dragon

    Red Dragon New Member

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    It's ALIVE! YEEEEEEHAAAAAA!!!!!!

    Holy crap! I can't friggin believe it! It started on the first crank and ran smooth as silk. I still can't freak'n believe it!

    The Red Dragon had her first trial run on the road too. Holy crap!!!!! Holy Crap!!!!! I can't friggin believe it! How do you spell P O W E R!!!!!!? Holy crap!!!! This is a 2V? :rlaugh:

    My Stang feels light as a feather on the road now. You want a little more speed?..... just lean on it a little and she "zings!" Yes, zings! Cool as all get-out, I tell ya!

    I bet ya can't tell that I am just a teeny tiny bit EXCITED!!!! :banana: :banana: :rlaugh: :D :p

    Cruising at 60 and you hear nothing and it is totally smooth as silk; better than stock. Holy crap!!, I can still listen to CDs! The exhaust sounds a little thoatier. Hmmmmm, I wonder why? Damn, I can't stand it!

    At idle it makes a slight zingging noise; just enough to let people know to BACK-OFF JACK! HA haaa hhhaaaah hhaaa!!! Yeeeehaaaaaw!

    There is one small problem with the system. The intercooler pump is not pumping coolant. I primed it till the cows came home, and still no movement of coolant. I will need to call KB on that one. According to the literature on the pump, KB has installed it incorrectly. The discharge must be pointing up or sideways. KB has theirs pointing down. It still should work though, I made sure that coolant passed through the pump and out of the radiator for the intercooler.

    Whew, I still can't believe it ran so damn good. Holy crap!!!

    I wonder if I am the first one to get one running?

    Well guys and gals, it is another late morning (three in a row). Time to get the butt crack horizontal. I will take her for a spin again later in the morning. After that I am gone for a week, but will return and post more pictures along with a full rundown. Sorry to have to get excited and run, but I have to be somewhere for a week and there is no getting around it. I had hoped that this would have been done sooner, but hey, at least it got done before I had to go. I wouldn't have been able to think of anything else if that had happened.

    Thanks for all of the thumbs up. This blower is totally freak'n awesome. It was a little more work than I had anticipated, but once that puppy started up, those labor pains were gone. And the ride........ Priceless!

    Once I have the intercooler fixed I will schedule a day to go to Kennedys. We will dyno the car and check the tune. But heck, I have to tell ya, how could it get better? This thing is wayyyyy better than I expected.

    And for those of you wanting power at 2K..... its there! Holy crap!!!

    Talk to you all later.
     
    #97
  18. Ryan L

    Ryan L Founding Member

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    :lol:

    Congrats. I can't wait to see the pics.
     
    #98
  19. VoodooChi|d

    VoodooChi|d Pedophile

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    :D Thats what I like to hear :nice:
     
    #99
  20. aggiedj02

    aggiedj02 New Member

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    all that and yuo are leaving for a week :bang:

    Oh well... I'm happy to hear it all worked out for ya. Just be sure to come back and post up pics. Maybe even a vid or two :shrug: hopefully???

    :nice:
     
    #100

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