Koer codes...some quick answers please.

CDQICKGT

New Member
Jan 25, 2006
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fort hood, tx
i finally got a new test light and pulled the koer codes on my 89gt, heres what i got. 21-coolant temp sensor, 41-p/s o2 lean, 91-d/s o2 lean, 31-egr( its removed).

Heres my question. Ive been battleing a rough idle, running hot ( especially with ac on), and feeling a over all loss of power. will a bad ECT cause a car with a mechanical fan to run hot?, O2's...power loss and idle culprit?
 
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O2 sensors will cause that, as well as a bad ect sensor.


Did you run the test wih the car fully warmed up? If you run the codes with the car cold, you always get an ect code. So make sure coolant is hot first.

As for the code 41/91, it could be a number of things. New o2 sensors are 38 each from rock auto for ford sensors. Those are the only ones I would recommend. However, there are other causes for the codes. Search here and you'll find some good info on what to check,

As for your egr code...there a reason why it is removed? Nothing to gain by removing it and you could lose some fuel economy without it.
 
O2 sensors will cause that, as well as a bad ect sensor.


Did you run the test wih the car fully warmed up? If you run the codes with the car cold, you always get an ect code. So make sure coolant is hot first.

As for the code 41/91, it could be a number of things. New o2 sensors are 38 each from rock auto for ford sensors. Those are the only ones I would recommend. However, there are other causes for the codes. Search here and you'll find some good info on what to check,

As for your egr code...there a reason why it is removed? Nothing to gain by removing it and you could lose some fuel economy without it.

And the car was warm. i had just driven it a while before. everything was still pretty warm to the touch, temp gauge was on 1st line up.
when i bought the car the only thing egr related that was left was the stuff on the throttle body. everything else is gone, so i just put in a nonegr T/B spacer and capped the vac lin off.
 
im pretty sure its not a vac leak as ive spent the last 45 days going over and over the car. i know its running rich, when the car is running in the garage its burns the piss outta my eyes afte just a quick min of idleing. garage door open and pipes facing out of course. how exactly does the mech fan not to activate?
 
the engine temp has to be over 180* to pass the KOER test IIRC. so even tho it was warm it may not of been hot enough

when my ECT sensor went bad I had hard start problems when the car was hot. I had to turn off the Injectors by flooring the pedal while cranking for it to start

I am dealing with the 41/91 codes my self. I replaced O2 sensors, checked the voltage at the computer, checked my Maf voltage, cleaned Maf wires, checked for vacuum lines, removed the vacuum to the FPR and plugged the line, replaced fuel filter, checked the orange Hego Ground in engine bay(in the fuel injection wiring harness)

It goes away for a while while I removed the line to the FPR and plugged the line. but comes back. So for me im leaning towards a fuel problem. Sometimes my FP doesnt prime and the codes come back, so I think its on its way out
 
Code 21 or 116 – ECT sensor out of range. Broken or damaged wiring, bad ECT sensor.
Note that that if the outside air temp is below 50 degrees F that the test for the
ECT can be in error. This code may go away as the engine warms up, so don't dump the codes
on a cold engine


The ECT sensor has absolutely nothing to do with the temperature gauge. They are
different animals. The ECT sensor is normally located it the RH front of the engine in
the water feed tubes for the heater.

The ACT & ECT have the same thermistor, so the table values are the same

ACT & ECT test data:

Use Pin 46 on the computer for ground for both ECT & ACT to get most accurate
readings.

Pin 7 on the computer - ECT signal in. at 176 degrees F it should be .80 volts

Pin 25 on the computer - ACT signal in. at 50 degrees F it should be 3.5 volts. It is
a good number if the ACT is mounted in the inlet airbox. If it is mounted in the lower
intake manifold, the voltage readings will be lower because of the heat transfer.

Voltages may be measured across the ECT/ACT by probing the connector from
the rear. A pair of safety pins may be helpful in doing this. Use care in doing it
so that you don't damage the wiring or connector.

Here's the table :

50 degrees F = 3.52 v
68 degrees F = 3.02 v
86 degrees F = 2.62 v
104 degrees F = 2.16 v
122 degrees F = 1.72 v
140 degrees F = 1.35 v
158 degrees F = 1.04 v
176 degrees F = .80 v
194 degrees F = .61
212 degrees F = .47 v
230 degrees F = .36 v
248 degrees F = .28 v

Ohms measures at the computer with the computer disconnected, or at the sensor with the sensor disconnected.

50 degrees F = 58.75 K ohms
68 degrees F = 37.30 K ohms
86 degrees F = 27.27 K ohms
104 degrees F = 16.15 K ohms
122 degrees F = 10.97 K ohms
140 degrees F = 7.60 K ohms
158 degrees F = 5.37 K ohms
176 degrees F = 3.84 K ohms
194 degrees F = 2.80 K ohms
212 degrees F = 2.07 K ohms
230 degrees F = 1.55 K ohms
248 degrees F = 1.18 k ohms

Diagram courtesy of Tmoss & Stang&2birds

88-91_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif


See the following website for some help from Tmoss (diagram designer) & Stang&2Birds
(website host) for help on 88-95 wiring Mustang FAQ - Wiring & Engine Info

Ignition switch wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/IgnitionSwitchWiring.gif

Fuel, alternator, A/C and ignition wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/fuel-alt-links-ign-ac.gif

Complete computer, actuator & sensor wiring diagram for 88-91 Mass Air Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/88-91_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif

Vacuum diagram 89-93 Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/mustangFoxFordVacuumDiagram.jpg



Code 41 or 91 Three digit code 172 or 176 - O2 sensor indicates system lean. Look for a vacuum leak or failing O2 sensor.

Revised 24-Sep-2009 to correct computer pin description for 94-95 5.0 Mustangs

Code 41 is a RH side sensor,
Code 91 is the LH side sensor.

Code 172 is the RH side sensor
Code 176 is the LH side sensor

The computer sees a lean mixture signal coming from the O2 sensors and tries to compensate by adding more fuel. Many times the end result is an engine that runs pig rich and stinks of unburned fuel.

The following is a Quote from Charles O. Probst, Ford fuel Injection & Electronic Engine control:
"When the mixture is lean, the exhaust gas has oxygen, about the same amount as the ambient air. So the sensor will generate less than 400 Millivolts. Remember lean = less voltage.

When the mixture is rich, there's less oxygen in the exhaust than in the ambient air , so voltage is generated between the two sides of the tip. The voltage is greater than 600 millivolts. Remember rich = more voltage.

Here's a tip: the newer the sensor, the more the voltage changes, swinging from as low as 0.1 volt to as much as 0.9 volt. As an oxygen sensor ages, the voltage changes get smaller and slower - the voltage change lags behind the change in exhaust gas oxygen.

Because the oxygen sensor generates its own voltage, never apply voltage and never measure resistance of the sensor circuit. To measure voltage signals, use an analog voltmeter with a high input impedance, at least 10 megohms. Remember, a digital voltmeter will average a changing voltage." End Quote

Testing the O2 sensors 87-93 5.0 Mustangs
Measuring the O2 sensor voltage at the computer will give you a good idea of how well they are working. You'll have to pull the passenger side kick panel off to gain access to the computer connector. Remove the plastic wiring cover to get to the back side of the wiring. Use a safety pin or paper clip to probe the connections from the rear. The computer pins are 29 (LH O2 with a dark green/pink wire) and 43 (RH O2 with a dark blue/pink wire). Use the ground next to the computer to ground the voltmeter. The O2 sensor voltage should switch between .2-.9 volt at idle.


Testing the O2 sensors 94-95 5.0 Mustangs
Measuring the O2 sensor voltage at the computer will give you a good idea of how well they are working. You'll have to pull the passenger side kick panel off to gain access to the computer connector. Remove the plastic wiring cover to get to the back side of the wiring. Use a safety pin or paper clip to probe the connections from the rear. The computer pins are 43 (LH O2 with a red/black wire) and 44 (RH O2 with a gray/lt blue wire). Use the metal next to the computer to ground the voltmeter. The O2 sensor voltage should switch between .2-.9 volt at idle.


Note that all resistance tests must be done with power off. Measuring resistance with a circuit powered on will give false readings and possibly damage the meter. Do not attempt to measure the resistance of the O2 sensors, it may damage them.

Testing the O2 sensor wiring harness
Most of the common multimeters have a resistance scale. Be sure the O2 sensors are disconnected and measure the resistance from the O2 sensor body harness to the pins on the computer.

The O2 sensor ground (orange wire with a ring terminal on it) is in the wiring harness for the fuel injection wiring. I grounded mine to one of the intake manifold bolts

Make sure you have the proper 3 wire O2 sensors. Only the 4 cylinder cars used a 4 wire sensor, which is not compatible with the V8 wiring harness.

Replace the O2 sensors in pairs if replacement is indicated. If one is weak or bad, the other one probably isn't far behind.

If you get only code 41or 91 and have changed the sensor, look for vacuum leaks. This is especially true if you are having idle problems. The small plastic tubing is very brittle after many years of the heating it receives. Replace the tubing and check the PVC and the hoses connected to it.
A secondary problem with only a code 41 or 91 is for cars with an intact smog pump and cats. If the tube on the back of the heads clogs up, all the air from the smog pump gets dumped into one side. This excess air upsets the O2 sensor calibration and can set a false code 41 or 91. The cure is to remove the crossover tube and thoroughly clean the insides so that there is no carbon blocking the free flow of air to both heads.




See the "Surging Idle Checklist for help with all your idle/stall problems. Everything you need to find and fix idle problems is in there.

The first two posts contain all the updates to the fixes. At last count there were 24 possible causes and fixes for surging idle/stall problems. I continue to update it as more people post fixes or ask questions.
 
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