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Discussion in '2005 - 2009 Specific Tech' started by Brads Coupe, Nov 21, 2003.
great, put me down for an O/R X and packs for the 06 Cobra please!
not a complete car perhaps, but they had test mules (and running protypes of the 05 stang) looong before the concept was out at the NAIAS this year.
The plot thickens...
Ok, all of this makes sense, but I still haven't really seen anyone address 351's statements directly. I could see that they've been working up the chassis design for some time, and may have had soem form of test mule running around before the show car, but how long has the new production 4.6 3v been tested? And who has had access to it and for how long? GNN60GT500, when you say "modifications" do you mean engine mods? Or are we talking ricer-style body kits and such?
I hate to say this because I'm as curious as to what the new car will look like as the rest of you, but we will not know until the car is officially unveiled at the auto show. It's fun to speculate, but why do so in a negative way? As with anything like this, only time will tell...
Here's my 2 cents worth, take it as you may:
At the moment, Ford is having huge financial trouble. Why on earth would they waste resources, time, labor, and especially money on creating a concept car if they already had what was to be the production car? That would just be retarded. If you don't believe the whole thing about Ford's financial problems I'll add that I just saw a program on the news about how GM is "Racing Ahead", comparing GM to Ford, explaining how at the moment Ford is taking a huge hit financially, while GM seems to be gaining. And I remember a month to two months ago when Ford's stock was some where around $11 and had just gone down again, and GM's was around $40 and was gaining.
If any of that is true about the production car that we are seeing being created before the concept, then damn Ford to eternal Hell for showing off such a beautiful car that I will never have.
Still going to buy one though...assuming it passes my trademark testdrive (a.k.a. making the salesman become completely silent or start screaming hysterically out of fear, while they drop a deuce in their pants as they grab onto anything and everything in the car, hoping that this won't be "the end").
Fact: Concept and Final Production were done by 2 seperate teams. There were 3 concepts, which were designed in California....
1) Red coupe (grainy picture that most have seen)
2) Red Vert (spy pics came about a year ago unveiled at NAIAS'03)
3) Silver Coupe (unveiled at the 2003NAIAS)
Only Ford knows if the Red Coupe/Silver coupe are in fact the same car.
The Red coupe was shown at Pebble Beach last year and came under criticism for the front end, so it was redesigned to what you see on the 05 Concepts.
They were designed from the production model, with gimpses and teases from all the models that will be available.
They were in fact there to steal the show and keep interest high in the coming 12 weeks, until the production unveiling.
It was a smart idea.
People were begging for the new stang, but had they shown the production version, by the time the car is released next year, the hype would have fizzled...so the concepts were created to temp/show us what we have in store.
You will note HOW LONG AGO the design was locked in.
AT LEAST November of 2002 (and earlier) but the first case any of the unknowing saw the CAD released/leaked at that time.
I saw the final production shot Feb of 03 and it has not changed since.
It is in fact the white spy shot.
Don't even ask which model it is, cause I don't know.
Whether it is infact the v6, or the GT, until January, we won't know.
Some say it is, some say its not.
I do know that it IS a model you will see driving down the street.
Either with the 4.0 2v v6 or 4.6 3v v8.
January comes with eagerness
Once again the conversation is steered back to aesthetics... The original post was about WEIGHT and ENGINE MANAGEMENT. 351 is still the only person to address the original post with any good information (information based on what is out there on other Ford vehicles, information that tends to support the validity of the original post). GNN60GT500 mentions that Ford showed the Mustang to "to select group of aftermarket companies at SEMA, so they could start getting ideas on modifications before the car is released" but doesn't state what kind of mods we're talking about. Engine mods? Or other mods--suspension, aesthetics, etc.? There are a million other threads on this board about what the Mustang is going to look like. It would be nice if this thread could stay on topic, even if it's mostly speculation at this point. It will probably continue to be speculation until the cars hit the showrooms and people start trying to tweak them. In my mind it doesn't make the Mustang any better or worse per se (other than the potential weight issue) but it is interesting in terms of the direction the auto industry is taking.
I would think it was mainly appearance mods if they only showed the mustang to the aftermarket companies. I mean the potential for really developing anything has to start with dimensions and possibly a production engine or suspension for testing purposes. Sure you could start a design on a cold air kit. But precious little without an engine to test fit them on. Same with suspension.
This whole thread is based on speculation period Satellite. Cjs post is based on current knowledge. If the car "did" get heavier and the car wasn't easy to modify I agree with Elenaors post then that Ford wants a piece of the game back. For Ford to do this especially with the computer it makes mods harder. Then theres no real incentive for most of us to go out and buy the new car. Kinda like shooting yourself in the head even if there are new regulations and laws ahead. GMs LS1s are still around and continue to make more power every year ie C6, next years autocross GTO, and possibly rear drive Monte Carlos, and an Impala. Those cars aren't that hard to modify or tune. So why would Ford do this?
Considering the SVT news and the soon to be started ST branch. I now have even more reason to doubt the "leak".
The new Cobra might cost over forty thousand.,
Good point about the LS1. But how much longer can GM keep that engine alive as emission standards get tougher? Is Ford just being more proactive regarding future regulations?
I still doubt that a new engine that is harder to mod in terms of HP would have a major impact in sales. And I'm guessing that Ford is willing to risk losing a small portion of their customer base (who are probably so Ford loyal in the first place where else are they going to go?) in order to gain new customers for a more modern car with broader appeal. I do, however, think that any potential stumbling blocks that are created in terms of computer codes, etc., will eventually be solved by the aftermarket. But over time cars have only gotten harder, not easier, to mod, and this seems to be consistant with that trend.
I think that might be erring on the side of pessimism. That would be an addition jump of +- $5k. Over the jump from $27k to $35k. That would be an increase of $13k in about 5 years. Which I think would be VERY hard to justify.
Yeah, but if the 2005 GT is almost as fast as the current Cobra (we'll see), and if the new 2006 or whatever Cobra is a more modern and sophisticated car that can spank an M3, seems like $40K would be a fair price. The upcoming Charger will be around $40k, and I'm sure whatever GM brings to the table in a few years to replace the GTO will be in that range.
Dang, now I got off topic! But at least we're not talking about whether the 2005 Mustang has an ugly butt or not.
ok, this Cobra price discussion should go over here:
The GTO is getting redesigned in 2007. In 2006 you might see a rear drive Impala and Monte. The LS1 uses highly efficient heads from what I here. Almost like the aftermarket 18 degree from the factory. You can run a pretty big cam and still pass emissions. Think about they're certified LEVs and make all this power. Where is Ford? Possibly lockout potential customers who build their cars and would rather cater to the mainstream buyer. Very possible. Living on the past hoping for a future. They have to give the Mustang buyer something that says buy me. And that approach may not be it.
Considering were this thread has gone does it matter.
With a few exceptions the Mustang has always gotten by on looks and attitude and price. The V6 is and will always be the big seller. Actual performance has always been a secondary consideration.
I thought Lutz had said 3 years for the Aussie GTO with a redesign pending, not certain. This whole muscle car rebirth thing could end up being just another flash in the pan. By 2008 the general public and EPA could be fully into hybrids.
I work for Magnaflow Performance Exhaust
ok guys here is what I know as of the international auto show held in orlando in november. I picked the brains of the ford rep and got this. He is saying 5.4L v-8 with variable valve timing. (making 87 octane a reality just like the f150). 6-speed both in the gt. focus stops production in europe as of 2005. Now for the possibles paddle shifters.... Ie look at all the new mazda lineups. might make it in the mustang for cost purposes. beyond that he wouldn't tell me anything except that the most of the things on the net (white test mule specifically) was "very close" and he winked while nodding his head to production.
Still no one has adressed my point....how can you have a computer that goes into failure mode if the torque is changed, when every engine produces slightly different outputs. I doubt that Ford is going to program each computer induvidually for every car.