Long Tubes a waste on N/A cars.
- Thread starter MustangLife
- Start date
- Status
-
Sponsors (?)
Peak numbers are worthless to a certain extent. The power curve is what matters. Who gives a crap that you dynoed 4hp less than Mustang92(Bill), have you ever heard of different weather conditions? Post your graphs and then we will get Bill to post his. His power curve will blow yours out of the water and im sure his weather conditions are worse than yours.
muzztangman
Founding Member
MustangLife said:
well I guess you have it all figured out. Don't buy them then. You should have started a thread that say.
"DON'T BUY LONG TUBES BECAUSE IN MY OPINION THEY ARE NO GOOD AND NOT WORTH THE MONEY OR TROUBLE"
on a lighter noter let me explain all my dynos to you.
My baseline dyno with nothing but welded in flows
235.6 RWHP in a Houston summer. (SAE)
I added a Magnaflow catback, Magnaflow X pipe w/ cats, Pro-M 77mm MAF, BBK pullies, and Anderson CAI ANother trip to the dyno
248.3 again in a Houston summer, and SAE.
I added my long tubes, and off road X pipe, and got a dyno tuned Autologic chip, and dynoed 261 SAE in a Houston July. And yes that's only a 13 RWHP increase I know, but I also had 373 gears since the last dyno which commonly shows as a ~5 RWHP decrease on a dyno. So I added it back in to get 18. Think that's BS I don't care. But my car feels a lot stronger since I added them. Peak RWHP isn't everything anyway as other have mentioned. It's always hot down here, so my dyno numbers aren't quite as impressive as you yankees
With DR's I should run ~ 13.2 or so how 'bout you ? I have also planned to get a s/c from the day I bought my car so I'll get my use out of them.So don't get them - Not like I'm making, or loosing any money
from you. Your loss
Never did see your RWHP, or ET's 
By the way how does your raspy @$$ exhaust sound ? I know how that combo sounds.
Come down here to do a dyno in 97 degree heat - can't whoop me.
FRPP 4.10
VRS Off-Road X-Pipe
2 Chamber Flowmasters
Diablo-Sport Chip Dyno Tuned
Steeda U/D Pulleys
Densecharger Full Length Cold Air Intake
Hypertech 160 Thermostat
Nitto 275-40-17 Extreme Drags
Eibach Sportline Springs
lakewood 90/10 Struts
Rear Seat Delete Kit
Front Sway Bar Delete
X2C Upper and Lower Control Arms
Kenny Brown Super-Subs
31 Spline Moser Axles
31 Spline FRPP Traction-
Well its a fact that LTs only give you ~5rwhp at peak, but the most important thing is total area under the dyno curve. This is similar to the Vortech vs. Kenne Bell argument. Both basic kits seem to net 375-400 rwhp, but the Kenne Bell has so much more HP at the lower RPMs (torque) so numbers are deceiving. I had a set of LTs sitting in my garage and I decided getting 5rwhp at peak wasn't worth the $1000 (parts and labor). I sold the LTs and bought an NX kit. I went to the track and gained 10 mph.
Some people would rather gain 2 mph as opposed to 10 mph. Not sure why. I prefer 10 mph.
Some people would rather gain 2 mph as opposed to 10 mph. Not sure why. I prefer 10 mph.
Does anyone notice, all the guys that Say LTs dont yield any gains......Dont have them......I allready had an Xpipe and flowmasters, and I installed my MAC LTs and felt ATLEAST 15 rwhp It made a good bit of diffrence......It has been the best bang for the buck mod I have put on my car.....payed $275 for them brand new.... no problems at all..Dave
LS2 KLR
Member
I paid $648 with tax for my long tubes and x pipe. I dynoed my car before and after. I gained exactly 20rwhp and 8rwtq over a Bassani x pipe on my stock motor!
Ryan L said:Well its a fact that LTs only give you ~5rwhp at peak, but the most important thing is total area under the dyno curve. This is similar to the Vortech vs. Kenne Bell argument. Both basic kits seem to net 375-400 rwhp, but the Kenne Bell has so much more HP at the lower RPMs (torque) so numbers are deceiving. I had a set of LTs sitting in my garage and I decided getting 5rwhp at peak wasn't worth the $1000 (parts and labor). I sold the LTs and bought an NX kit. I went to the track and gained 10 mph.
Some people would rather gain 2 mph as opposed to 10 mph. Not sure why. I prefer 10 mph.
1000 dollars for headers? You would have got ripped off BIG time if you paid that. Hell I'll do it for 800
68 & 00 GT said:well I guess you have it all figured out. Don't buy them then. You should have started a thread that say.
"DON'T BUY LONG TUBES BECAUSE IN MY OPINION THEY ARE NO GOOD AND NOT WORTH THE MONEY OR TROUBLE"
on a lighter noter let me explain all my dynos to you.
My baseline dyno with nothing but welded in flows
235.6 RWHP in a Houston summer. (SAE)
I added a Magnaflow catback, Magnaflow X pipe w/ cats, Pro-M 77mm MAF, BBK pullies, and Anderson CAI ANother trip to the dyno
248.3 again in a Houston summer, and SAE.
I added my long tubes, and off road X pipe, and got a dyno tuned Autologic chip, and dynoed 261 SAE in a Houston July. And yes that's only a 13 RWHP increase I know, but I also had 373 gears since the last dyno which commonly shows as a ~5 RWHP decrease on a dyno. So I added it back in to get 18. Think that's BS I don't care. But my car feels a lot stronger since I added them. Peak RWHP isn't everything anyway as other have mentioned. It's always hot down here, so my dyno numbers aren't quite as impressive as you yankees
So don't get them - Not like I'm making, or loosing any money
from you. Your loss
By the way how does your raspy @$$ exhaust sound ? I know how that combo sounds.
Come down here to do a dyno in 97 degree heat - can't whoop me.
FRPP 4.10
VRS Off-Road X-Pipe
2 Chamber Flowmasters
Diablo-Sport Chip Dyno Tuned
Steeda U/D Pulleys
Densecharger Full Length Cold Air Intake
Hypertech 160 Thermostat
Nitto 275-40-17 Extreme Drags
Eibach Sportline Springs
lakewood 90/10 Struts
Rear Seat Delete Kit
Front Sway Bar Delete
X2C Upper and Lower Control Arms
Kenny Brown Super-Subs
31 Spline Moser Axles
31 Spline FRPP Traction-
You say you added an Autologic chip at the same time you added your LT's. You never tuned your car prior to the longtubes and you made 248.3 rwhp SAE. You could have just tuned your car without the LT's and you would have been pretty close to your 260 number with an aggressive tune. My car gained 8 rwhp from air/fuel ratio tweaks and timing adjustments. You didn't really gain 13 rwhp. from just the LT's. You tuned it as well. Big difference.
Also, you clearly don't understand what SAE corrected numbers are. It doesn't matter that you dynoed your car on a hot day. The SAE correction factor will account for that. Your correction factor on a hot day is likely above 1.00. Take your uncorrected results and multiply them against your correction factor for SAE numbers. Likewise, dyno a cold day (more power, dense air, etc.) and your correction factor will likely be below 1.00.
Example: when you dyno a car in cool weather, the Dynojet software may produce a correction factor of 0.97. In other words, SAE rwhp was only 97% of the uncorrected number due to the cool weather. So if SAE was 260, uncorrected was 268. The car made 268 that day under those conditions. It likely won't produce 268 on a hot day. But for comparison purposes across the world, SAE was created to make more variables consistent.
As far as gear swaps causing your car to lose power, that's a new one for me.
mogs01gt wrote
I plan on it sometime. The car is still driveable and pretty much raceable, it just slows me down some. The reason I haven't gotten the tranny torn down is. I plan on a tko since i race. And I know the 3650 will just tear up again. So its alittle pricy to go the tko route, but it would be worth it.
Josh
I plan on it sometime. The car is still driveable and pretty much raceable, it just slows me down some. The reason I haven't gotten the tranny torn down is. I plan on a tko since i race. And I know the 3650 will just tear up again. So its alittle pricy to go the tko route, but it would be worth it.
Josh
Mustang92
SN's #1 1%er
MustangLife said:
Sorry but shift forks can't bend they can only break or crack it's one or the other.
Actually I made 267RWHP and the MAF made zero diffference on the dyno I had swapped back and forth from the stock one to the C&L and Pro-M no difference. Also if you haven't learned this year peak numbers don't always tell the story the curve is what matters. My car picked up 2 MPH and lost 2 tenths with the useless longtubes, I'm about as consistant a driver you'll find anywhere. But hey if you want to keep telling yourself that longtubes are useless you keep doing that and we won't let anyone ruin your little secret.
The car doesn't lose power but the dyno numbers are affected by the steeper gear ratio.
Bill
Yellow01GT
Founding Member
mogs01gt said:1000 dollars for headers? You would have got ripped off BIG time if you paid that. Hell I'll do it for 800
$600 for LTs, mid-pipe, gaskets, etc. Most places wanted $300-400 to install. Sucks. I didn't have the time to install LTs myself, but I did the NX kit myself.
And all of this MAF talk reminds me.... BUY MY 80mm C&L!
LS2 KLR
Member
mogs01gt said:1000 dollars for headers? You would have got ripped off BIG time if you paid that. Hell I'll do it for 800
I paid $1150 on parts and labor, including dyno pulls to test before and after. I did find a guy who would install them for $200 but it sounded too good to be true so I was nervous. I later found out more about this guy and a few weeks later he built/installed my new shortblock
5111
Founding Member
Here's proof
This should solve the problem. Here is my dyno sheet of before and after headers. NO OTHER CHANGES WERE MADE. Everything on the car is the same as before. Only change is headers. I went from high-flow to high-flow. All on the stock computer. Both sets of numbers are SAE. Remember, you are not looking at the final number as much as the difference between the two ALL THE WAY ACROSS THE BOARD.
I agree with this guy to a certain extent. LT's are an expensive mod. But they are NOT a waste of money on a NA engine.
This should solve the problem. Here is my dyno sheet of before and after headers. NO OTHER CHANGES WERE MADE. Everything on the car is the same as before. Only change is headers. I went from high-flow to high-flow. All on the stock computer. Both sets of numbers are SAE. Remember, you are not looking at the final number as much as the difference between the two ALL THE WAY ACROSS THE BOARD.
I agree with this guy to a certain extent. LT's are an expensive mod. But they are NOT a waste of money on a NA engine.
Attachments
- Status
Similar threads
