Lsx Vs Termi Swap

Discussion in '1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk-' started by forzalife, Feb 9, 2014.


  1. Gearbanger 101

    Gearbanger 101 Straight Outta Locash
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    under 500hp....stick with the 302. Stroke it, blow it...whatever. It's still going to be the cheapest option of the bunch.

    ...and you're not bastardizing your car by stuffing GM junk between the towers.

    I hate this thread!!!
     
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  2. rbohm

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    well said:nice::nice::nice::nice::nice::nice::nice::nice::nice::nice::nice::nice::nice:
     
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  3. hoopty5.0

    hoopty5.0 Mustang Master

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    I haven't seen the mark viii mentioned for swaps. It's a 4v motor and can be had for cheap. Do some research. While I'm an advocate for LS motors, modulars can be done cheaply.

    Is it a terminator motor? No, but you can hop it up and make it live on light boost
     
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  4. revhead347

    revhead347 I have face herpes.

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    Anyone here follow "Sloppy Mechanics" on Facebook? Basically a bunch of tards who grab up 5.3 engines from the junk yard and put them in junk cars like old Fairlanes with the most ghetto turbo setup they can make with a wire feed and corogated exhaust tube from O'Reilly's.

    Kurt
     
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  5. TOOLOW91

    TOOLOW91 Mustang Master

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    fairmonts you mean ? yeah they get pretty impressive results and they are now doing a real setup on the tan car I read on turbo bullet
     
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  6. revhead347

    revhead347 I have face herpes.

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    Yeah, Fairmonts, that's what I meant.

    Kurt
     
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  7. NIKwoaC

    NIKwoaC 中國製造

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    It sucks, I know, but V8s are the one thing GM does better than anyone else, and until Coyotes litter junk yards, LS-anything will still be the undisputed king of hot rod engines.
     
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  8. revhead347

    revhead347 I have face herpes.

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    The LS engines are nice, but out dated now. The new LT1 engine entered the market with out dated technology. It's like Chevrolet just introduced the new Pentium one processor. Is anyone else getting that vibe?

    Kurt
     
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  9. Gearbanger 101

    Gearbanger 101 Straight Outta Locash
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    Perhaps.....it just irks me what I hear the LSX nut huggers talking about how much power they could make with this and how fast they could go with that only to see them spend a pile on swap parts and oodles of time to drop a stock LS into the car and run 12's or even 13's. Man....that was a lot of trouble to go through for timeslips you could have matched with just bolt ons on your last car.

    I remember seeing a kid at the track a couple of years back. Probably early 20's with a ragged out late-80's Mustang hatch. Sqwaked all day about his 6.0L LS engine in his car and even went as far as to write "Stock 200,000-mile 6.0L LS under hood....no junk Ford engine" on his back window in white shoe polish. That tool chest ran low-9's in the 1/8th all weekend. Continued to chirp because his buddy in an equally beat mid-80's Fox hatch with an obviously stock and likely tired ford powered Fox Mustang ran mid-9's. I scratched my head and asked him what all the fuss was about, only to run 9's. His answer was...."yeah, but this is an LS2 engine man. I got this out of a Chevy P/U at the junk yard and it's the same engine as the Corvette (which it obviously wasn't). "Do you know what I could do with this thing if I wanted to"?

    He then proceeded to tell me how he spend "only" $1,000 on the engine and $1,800 on the swap parts and he's got a 10-second ride (even though it had just struggled to run what would be the equivalent of mid-14's?!? I just kind of smiled, said "oh yeah" and changed the subject.

    I've seen a LOT of LS powered F-bodies run 13's and 14's at the track. But, they've somehow gotten the "built by the hand of god" rep because about 1 in 20 has been able to wring a decent time out of them at....so they've all of the sudden become the be all, end all of engines.

    Meh, I'll stick with my measly stroked 302. I've got all of about $3,000 into the entire engine and beat up on LSX cars all day on nothing but motor. Thus far, anyone I've met who's running faster is doing it with a power adder, or more money under the hood than me. Doesn't seem to matter what it is. There are just too many of these 10-second hopefuls running around that'll never reach said potential to resist setting a few of them straight.

    I hate this thread!!!
     
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  10. krazedstang

    krazedstang Active Member

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    You may hate this thread, but I love this post.
     
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  11. krazedstang

    krazedstang Active Member

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    My vote is if you are only going for 500hp stick with your 302 or even get a 351. That will probably be the cheapest route.
     
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  12. hoopty5.0

    hoopty5.0 Mustang Master

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    Tards?

    With completely removing the LS engine association from the sloppy mechanics website, Matt has made pages and pages of write-ups, how to diagrams, and videos for building, modding, and tuning megasquirt on anything that runs with gas. He's a very sharp guy who has shared his knowledge with the public so that anyone can figure out the complexities associated with the software.

    While I 99% of the time agree with what you say, I'm going to politely disagree with you on that one. While their work IS shoddy at best, the information gleaned from what they do is invaluable.

    https://sites.google.com/site/sloppywiki/

    If you ignore the LS content and look at the page as a learning tool, I think it is incredible that this information is available for free.
     
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  13. revhead347

    revhead347 I have face herpes.

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    I was referring to the general posting mass there. I don't know anything about the guy who actually runs it.

    Kurt
     
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  14. Bullitt347

    Bullitt347 man bewbs please...

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    Here is my 2 cents on this. It is quite easy to get 325 WHP out of a 302. You put 325 HP to the tires in a Fox and it will be a blast. My N/A 08' Bullitt puts down an honest 325 HP to the tires and it will run 12's on street tires. Factor in that the 08' weighs more than a Fox body and I don't know why 325 HP in a Fox would not be enough. Everyone likes to talk big power on the street, or have big power on the street, but you can not really use all of it. All you do is just make tire smoke. For the $ spent, you are so much better off making a very street friendly 302 than wasting $ on a swap, unless the whole purpose of the swap is bragging rights, or you enjoy the challenge of the build. If the car is a street/strip car and fuel mileage and driveability is not a huge concern and high HP is the goal, then go for the gusto. It would be interesting to see what the $ per HP would be in a 302 /325 HP combo as opposed to the $ per HP in one of these swaps.
     
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  15. NIKwoaC

    NIKwoaC 中國製造

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    It might be outdated compared to other stuff on the market, but it is still easier to work on, less expensive, and packs more displacement in a smaller and more durable package than the great majority of other OEM’s stuff, particularly most anything Modular that Ford gave us. The aforementioned criteria still carries much more weight in the hot rodding world than technology alone, and is the reason the LS will continue to win these arguments for years to come.



    Yea, and don’t get me wrong, the LS is not some magical HP machine. The LS guys who tout 500 hp from a cam and header swap are completely full of poop.


    Then again, how many times do you see Windsor swapped Foxes running 13s? It’s pretty common around these parts. It’s easier to screw things up than it is to do them right.


    In my attempt to be completely unbiased, I see the LS as what Ford should have done with the SBF. It’s light, it’s compact, they actually came in displacements worthy of a 3200lb car, and the blocks are fairly robust, where the 302 might as well be made out of glass by today’s standards.


    I used to get pretty hung up on brand loyalty, but the LS is just a dang fine hot rodding engine.
     
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  16. 2000xp8

    2000xp8 Mustang Master

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    I won't debate the terminator (which i know quite a bit about) vs LS swap. I love the zo6, love the terminator and love pushrod 302's. Would i put an LS in a mustang? No, but i get it.

    What i will say, is that none are a budget minded project. No matter how you slice it, it's going to take time and be friggin expensive.

    I see the original poster says it's for a Daily driver. Does that mean you can be without your car for weeks even months? I've seen some guys never complete their project.
    Unless you have 10 grand in your hand, right now, a lift, engine hoist, every hand tool for a car known to man, tuning and dyno experience, it's may be out of your league. Oh, and you better know how to read schematics and work on vehicle wiring.

    You better not run out of money at any point. You never know when you are going to have to go in your pocket for another $500+.

    I'd reevaluate your skills to make sure you are there. It's not a slap it together over the weekend project and you need to be resourceful.
     
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    Last edited: Feb 10, 2014
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  17. NIKwoaC

    NIKwoaC 中國製造

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    Good post. You don't really need a lift, but it would be damn nice. Everything I've done on my car, I've done with jack stands lying on my back. I'd love^10 to have a lift, but it's more of a convenience thing than a need-to-have.
     
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  18. revhead347

    revhead347 I have face herpes.

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    Some good advice here.

    Kurt
     
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  19. old_blue

    old_blue Active Member

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    95% agree. ( I respectfully disagree with " Would i put an LS in a mustang? No, but i get it." I like the challenge )


    Either project will take time and 2000XP8 listed the best case scenario for you which, not a lot of us have access to unless they own a shop. Budget and end goals differ quite a bit when you talk about either swap. I know people harp on the fact that you'll need a need mount for the LS and the wiring and the tranny and all the cross members, exhaust, driveline, suspension mods to support the power blah blah blah......... The exact same holds true for a termi swap too.

    OP- I am pretty sure peeps have answered your question. Above all, it is your car, do what you want with it. People don't really whine too much these days when folks put 350's in 32 fords or 55 ford pickups. They are called car enthusiasts and if it is done nicely and the outcome is an awesome piece of machinery then no one really cares. (albeit the die hard fans). I'm a car guy and can appreciate the effort and knowledge that goes into any build. I am not a dedicated name brand follower for the most. Heck I even drive a KIA for my other car.

    Arguments can be made for everything. Even rebuilding a 5.0 block will require money and additional supporting modifications for it to work 100% correct. I mean even a decent set of aluminum heads for a 5.0 can run anywhere from $1200 to $2500 depending on what you are looking for. Just build what you want and share your progress and knowledge for those to follow in your footsteps.

    Goodluck.
     
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  20. 2000xp8

    2000xp8 Mustang Master

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    I'm getting old. I NEED a lift, lol. All my weight lifting does nothing to help me up off cold concrete.
    I had to fit so many things twice, i just can't see doing it on the ground.
    A good portion of my project was just an experiment. I had my theories, some of which worked out, some didn't.

    Swaps are done about a dozen different ways. I chose to keep the fox dash and harness. Many choose to replace the harness and cluster, some the harness cluster and dash. That's where the real expertise comes in, you have to be able to read diagrams.

    I'm lucky enough to have expert guidance, assistance and even machine shop help, and it was still a serious pain in the ass.

    For the record, i did the swap for a few reasons. One of which was modern 500hp reliability. No blowing head gaskets, leaking oil or worries about aftermarket blocks.
    Only thing i miss from the pushrod engine is the cam idle, which would cost me 2 grand to get, so that ain't happening.
    I always went by peak hp before, now i realize low end makes a car 100% easier to drive in traffic. It's fun too, albeit a little dangerous.

    As for a daily driver? I'd say no f'en way. No traction control or anti to save you. It's hard enough to keep straight below 40mph on dry pavement, so wet....
     
    #40
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2014
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