Discussion in '1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk-' started by forzalife, Feb 9, 2014.
@2000xp8 Fit things twice?!? Id consider that to be a lucky day in my garage, hahahahah
I love it! Let the flaming begin. Maybe I'm just a little to "old school", but putting an engine in something it doesn't belong entices me. As XP said, driveability, and other things my fox really doesn't have (economy etc.), can be found in new age power plants. Availability is another good factor. We can talk all day about "I did this with that", but I can personally recall my low-budget import days (hanging my head in shame) and destroying several 5.0s that were under driven or poorly constructed. I would love to tell you to "put a coyote in it", but lets be honest. They are few and expensive. As far as the "I have the same horsepower", well where's your gas mileage and how long will it last? I say this after several different combinations and a whole lot of money. Currently I am only limited by block and fuel. Easy fixes, but too costly to beat on and grenade at the track. I honestly have come to the point where cheap and semi-reliable would be a hell of a lot fun. A bonus would be driving my bracket racer to the local Fat Burger and back. So, the only advice I can give is do what suits your needs and dream big. Both will eventually catch you with work or cost.
See, the only part of that argument I take issue with his quoting the cost of brand-new aluminum heads. In the build. If you're going to insist on buying brand-new heads for the 302, so should too insist on buying a brand-new LSX engine for the Chevy swap? Otherwise, used aluminum heads can be had for as little $600-$800. Those savings go a long way towards other go fast, or supporting parts.
LSx engines are still expensive to get big numbers out of.
I did quite a bit of research since i was considering buying a first gen cts V. That has the LS6 and LS2 depending on the year.
Look around for one of those engines with the trans. They are NOT cheap.
After a cam they are roughly a 400rwhp hp setup. Add heads and a fast intake and you can get mid 400's but now you are in it a few more thousand bucks.
Putting a GM engine in a fox and getting 500rwhp is No cheaper than do it with a ford engine. So budget should not be the determining factor in a LS swap.
Remember too, just like a ford pushrod engine if you push for big numbers from a small engine, you lose low end.
I agree 100%. My buddy who owns the shop I grew up around has a '63 SS Nova with a HCI LS1. 425 at the wheels all day, but maaaaan it's not cheap.
Forced induction seems to be the cheap(er) method for big power, whether sbf of sbc. I still swear that when/if my LS pukes, im gonna buy another 351w junk yard motor and go back the ford route.
I had a lot of friends that had the LS1 engine cars. There are some parts in there that are really expensive. It's gotten better over the years. The LS1 is definitely a higher quality engine than an old pushrod Ford, but I don't think it's worth it. Like others have said, there are just so many costs associated with swapping in an engine from another brand that you just end up spending too much money. Not to mention things like AC. In order to get that AC system to work, you are going to need a ton of custom fittings and hoses. How about instrumentation. The Sloppy guys just stuff the Camaro cluster into their Fairmonts because they don't care how it looks. If you want to get it to work on your Mustang, you are going to need to get a ton of expensive aftermarket gauges. You're going to have to build your own panel of warning lights if you want those to work. The instrument cluster in the Mustang is part of the charging system. How are you going to get the Chevy alternator to work. All kinds of loopholes to jump through.
And THAT is exactly why I follow them on Youtube. I was searching for videos to teach me something....ANYTHING about the Megasquirt system. I gained the most knowledge from them....not saying i know a lot about MS but their vids gave me good insight.
Oh of course. I don't disagree with that at all. By all means, used aluminum heads are getting easier and cheaper to get these days. The only reason I was quoting them is because LS1 based motors already have aluminum heads on them that flow really well. Even small GEN IV 4.8L truck engines has LS 799 heads which flow very well out of the box (Pretty sure they are used on vettes.) Plus the newer motors (4.8) are said to be 295hp and 300tq and one can rev the heck out of them. Pretty decent numbers. But again, "Arguments can be made for everything." I just think people are too attached to the "keep a ford in a ford" adage but I guess I am a hypocrite because I would never swap brands in a true classic, i.e. 1st gen mustangs with a LS motor. Second to that, I wish Ford had improved upon the old pushrod motors as GM did. I am not trying to start an argument with cheaper and better between the two. Just looking at building a 5.0 motor with any kind of power and then having emissions attached causes anxiety...... Then the wiring on a 25+ old car that is so brittle it pretty much breaks when you bend it slightly... frustrating. I am sure I would have not complaints if this was 1989 and the car was fresh off the showroom floor. But, the only thing left in my price range is someone elses ragged out projects that leave the new owner to guess what was removed or hacked prior to receiving the keys to the car. Friends here thought they were buying a nice project and come to find out it had wood screws holding parts together........ I digress.
I just appreciate the work that goes into a build and creativity. I even saw a drift 350Z with a LS1 motor. It looked decent enough and sounded awesome. I was in total shock when he lifted the hood and showed it wasn't a Nissan power plant. When asked why, he said he needed more power and the LS offered more potential than is old power plant. Not sure the old 302 would have been as cost effective.
A lot of the drifters go for the LS1 because it's so compact. It fits in just about anything. The 5.0 with a good intake is hard to fit. I have a facebook friend with a 5.0 in a 240Z drift car.
Ford started ditching the pushrod engine about the same time GM started making any real improvements. There is no reason to improve upon your pushrod engines, when you are going to overhead cam engines.
But even GM has dabbled in OHC engines and keeps coming back to the pushrod. It all hinges on the Corvette and their desire to keep the low hood and front/mid engine mounting architecture. As long as GM sells a FMR-layout Corvette, they will always have a compact performance-oriented V8 platform, and trickle-down parts-bin engineering will ensure all of their other vehicles get similar technology.
GM openly admitted that the reason they didn't venture into an overhead cam for the new LT1 was budgetary. They just came out of bankruptcy and didn't have the funds to expend on designing an all new V8 engine. The new LT1 is a slightly modified LS series. It's going to cost them in the long run. While Ford is still slightly behind, most manufacturers are not having any trouble keeping their overhead cam engines low profile. GM is going to suffer in the long run for not making the investment in proper cam location now.