Manual vs. Power Brakes

[BrownPSU78]

How much more effective are Power Brakes then Manual?
How much more complicate is the install if someone were doing a front disc swap...Is it easy to upgrade to down the road?
How much more effective are Power Brakes then Manual?

To my knowledge the thing that increases brake performance is applied force, not the number of pistons. However would say a manual 4 piston caliper(are these sold) be better than a granada power caliper.

The reason I ask, is because it has ALWAYS been my intent to keep my car having manual steering and Manual brakes...I'm not sure why its just a feeling ive always had in my gut...
--Brown

 

[67CoupeDriva]

Effectiveness -- huge especially with disks (drums actually "boost" themselves a little via inertia when applied). But non-power setups will come with different sized master cylinder and reconfigured pedels to give you a little more help. For what it's worth, I've never heard of a non-power disk brake setup from the factory, but there could have been, of course.
In my case, the install was complicated only by having to add the booster, which involved enlarging the piston and mounting holes in the firewall and drilling out the hardened steel thread tabs on the support (that was a beeyotch).

 

[zookeeper]

Join the club. I really don't like older power brakes and feel there has to be a better way. How do I know? My wife's '69 Corvette has manual discs and while it does take a manly effort on the pedal, they work nicely. 1965 Shelbys had manual discs as well. Wilwood offers several master cylinders for disc/disc and disc drum applications in a wide range of bore sizes, and they're cheap enough to experiment with a couple until you get it right.

 

[5.0ina66]

There is no such thing as a manual brake caliper. Applied force is applied force, but with a booster, it's not all coming from your leg. An 87 Mustang GT booster will bolt up to the 67 non-power pedal and is less than $100

 

[dawtips]

a booster is a booster is a booster

 

[68restoman]

A properly setup manual front disc system can work as well as a power setup but the master cylinder sizing is crucial. You'll want to go with the smallest bore size you can that will supply enough volume. If you are keeping the rear drums that helps because they require less volume than rear discs.

On my '68 I'm running two piston PBR calipers ('03 Mach I) with 13" rotors and 10x2.5" drums with 1" wheel cylinders on the rear. I'm using a '94 Cobra 15/16" master cylinder with no booster. The car stops way better and with only slightly more effort than the previous setup which was stock front power discs...

68Restoman

 

[Rusty67]

There is no such thing as a manual brake caliper. Applied force is applied force, but with a booster, it's not all coming from your leg. An 87 Mustang GT booster will bolt up to the 67 non-power pedal and is less than $100

FYI 87-93 Mustang LX (V8)/GTs use the same booster.

 

[Tim65GT]

Posted by BrownPSU78:

How much more effective are Power Brakes then Manual?

My '65 GT came with the 4 piston manual disks and single bowl MC. Sure it stopped good, but you really had to step on the pedal.

I upgraded to a power booster with dual reservoir MC and it made a BIG difference. It now stops like a normal (newer) car.

 

[5.0ina66]

FYI 87-93 Mustang LX (V8)/GTs use the same booster.

I know I said 87 because I know it that it does work.

a booster is a booster is a booster

NOT! Not one that bolts up to the 67-later manual pedal...those have to be suited to the app. A stock-style power booster will not work with the manual pedal due to the different pivot locations

 

[DarkoStoj]

i have manual drums all around on my 66 with a single reservoir MC. I have absolutely zero problems with the way they perform. I think you guys need to start working out your legs a little more

 

[BrownPSU78]

Posted by BrownPSU78:


My '65 GT came with the 4 piston manual disks and single bowl MC. Sure it stopped good, but you really had to step on the pedal.

I upgraded to a power booster with dual reservoir MC and it made a BIG difference. It now stops like a normal (newer) car.

Would you say it shortened stopping distances?? or Just made it easier to press...I guess what im kinda getting at is how significant would the difference be when changing from manual drum/ drum to manual disc/drum vs changing to power disc/drum
--Brown

 

[Tim65GT]

posted by BrownPSU78:

Would you say it shortened stopping distances?? or Just made it easier to press...I guess what im kinda getting at is how significant would the difference be when changing from manual drum/ drum to manual disc/drum vs changing to power disc/drum

Both. (definetly made it easier to press and made the stopping distance shorter IMO)

It takes a little more time to apply the pedal pressure without the power assist.

Maybe it's the time it takes to judge how much pressure to give it quickly without locking them up.

With the power assist, it's more smooth - easier to finesse IMO.

 

[zookeeper]

i have manual drums all around on my 66 with a single reservoir MC. I have absolutely zero problems with the way they perform. I think you guys need to start working out your legs a little more

I don't want to start a brake theory war, but you're comparing apples to oranges. Drum brakes are self-energizing and don't require nearly the pressure as discs do, since they "wedge" themselves in the drums to aid in stopping. My '68 had drums, too and they work nicely, at least for the first hard stop. After that, who knows which way it'll go until the drums cool down. There's a reason most all cars have discs these days.

 

[caveeagle]

power upgrade to my '67 convert

My '67 Conv is a 289 4-speed car that still has the original non-power 4w drums. I have most of the parts aquired to put 13" cobra/PBR disks on the front and '86 SVO disks on the 8" rear axle.

I am now trying to decide what MC / booster combo to use. I am also looking for advice on prop valves.

I have been told that I can go with a manual MC from an SVO or a granada and stay manual. MC bore must be 1" or less.

I would really like to go to a power booster, but I don't want to deal with pedal swapping or hacking up my firewall. A couple of the Mustang suppliers (NPD & Laurel Mt Stang) sell an upgrade booster that they say will bolt to the original pedal / mounting holes. Only concern is using an aftermarket MC that may not be available in the future.

Has anyone used the NPD conversion booster?
Any other advice on the conversion?

Thanks..... CE

 

[5.0ina66]

My '67 Conv is a 289 4-speed car that still has the original non-power 4w drums. I have most of the parts aquired to put 13" cobra/PBR disks on the front and '86 SVO disks on the 8" rear axle.

I am now trying to decide what MC / booster combo to use. I am also looking for advice on prop valves.

I have been told that I can go with a manual MC from an SVO or a granada and stay manual. MC bore must be 1" or less.

I would really like to go to a power booster, but I don't want to deal with pedal swapping or hacking up my firewall. A couple of the Mustang suppliers (NPD & Laurel Mt Stang) sell an upgrade booster that they say will bolt to the original pedal / mounting holes. Only concern is using an aftermarket MC that may not be available in the future.

Has anyone used the NPD conversion booster?
Any other advice on the conversion?

Thanks..... CE

Baer reccomends 1+ bore for 13" PBR caliper- equipped systems, and the 1984 SVO MC fits the bill nicely at 1 1/16" and for less than $40.

An 87-93 5.0 Mustang booster and SVO MC are a known swap for the manual-pedal equipped manual trans cars (this was detailed on the now defunct Ultrastang site) A 74-78 MustangII booster also seems to be an excellent choice and maybe a better fit lenghtwise.

A Wilwood adj. prop valve is $40 from Summit.

 

[mdjay]

comparing drums to disc is one arguement. comparing power to non-power is another.

manual drum to manual disc. there's a big difference in stopping distance. yet as stated there is an increased pedal effort.

adding a booster to drum brakes helps a little. adding a booster to disc helps alot.

adding a booster and disc brakes is light years ahead of manual drum and they stop straight too...

 

[BrownPSU78]

thank you mdjay....

 

[rbohm]

a power brake booster doesnt decrease stopping distances, or increase braking efficiency, so much as it multiplys the force you put on the brake pedal which makes it easier to get the line pressure up on a disc brake system. you can apply the same pedal pressure without a power booster, it is just alot harder to do so, and that is where the illusion of shorter stopping distances comes in with a power booster.

 

[gonzothegreat]

a power brake booster doesnt decrease stopping distances, or increase braking efficiency, so much as it multiplys the force you put on the brake pedal which makes it easier to get the line pressure up on a disc brake system. you can apply the same pedal pressure without a power booster, it is just alot harder to do so, and that is where the illusion of shorter stopping distances comes in with a power booster.

I agree with that

 

[CochinoFilipino]

So in conclusion. Manual discs stop just as well as Power discs?

I'm going to discs for better stopping power. I'm going Power discs so my wife feels comfortable when she drives it.