MC help

[Grabber70Mach]

Thanks for the information, I wondered if they just made an adaptor. Are these available at most parts stores or are they special order from a vendor?

 

[ultrastang]

My Bad

The piece I got came from Centric and was ordered as a '94 Cobra. I measured the bore and it's a smidge smaller than 1", so I just guessed it was 15/16".

If anyone knows it's Ultrastang, but I know I'm not cracked on this one. You're right, it looks wierd to have that angle. I can't use a power booster because of the cable clutch. It'll have to look wierd unless I can swap the tank.

Chalk it up to quality parts suppliers.

You were right, and I was mistaken. I got my facts crossed up. --guess that's what happens after you turn 40 and still try to rely on memory.

I said the '93 Cobra MCs had 15/16" bores and the '95/'95 Cobra MCs had 1" bores. --that should be just the opposite.

The correct information is: 1993 Cobras have 1" bores and '94/'95 Cobra MCs have 15/16" bores.

My apologies for stating inaccurate information.


http://www.ultrastang.com

 

[69gmachine]

Well fortunately Ultrastang's memory was good on the V6 parts. I just picked up a rebuilt MC for the '99 up cars. It has the 1" bore. After a discussion with gsxrken, I decided to go with the smaller 1" bore vice the 1 1/16, because he had the same problem I had with not being able to generate enough force in a panic stop although he had power brakes and the 1 1/16th master. The front calipers I'm using have dual 40 mm pistons, which works out to 4.5 sq. in. per caliper. There is a pretty good drop in area going from 1 1/8 down to 1", so I'm hoping it will give me the right feel, and be able to really clamp down hard in a panic stop.

I got the rebuilt MC at AZ for a whopping $61 plus $20 for a core although it didn't come with a reservoir. They're pretty flexible with the core, so I'll turn in a similar MC for a different application. And of course now I have to make a trip to the boneyard to get a reservoir.

My next question is:
what kind of adapters do I need to convert to the old style brake lines?

 

[Rusty67]

You can have custom hard lines made or you can use adaptors that are available for going from SAE to metric.

 

[Grabber70Mach]

I found this link when looking for adapters for going from metric to SAE. Not sure if they are the correct ones but thought it might help.

http://www.plews-edelmann.com/brochure.cfm?brochure=1869&location_id=2516

 

[69gmachine]

Thanks zincyellow... I'm sure what I need is in there somewhere, but there are sooo many different metric pitches and sizes, I still don't know which one I need.

I did however make a discovery while cruising the boneyard today. A '73 F350 (had a 390 in it) has a one piece iron MC with an overall length of 7 3/8" and the ports exit on the driver side. Of course they have SAE threads so plumbing would be a breeze. It will be a lot heavier than the 94 up aluminum and plastic piece, but it also looks a lot more correct. I have no idea what size the bore is, but if I had to wager a guess, I'd bet it's 15/16ths. I may go back tomorrow with my calipers to find out. I may end up changing to this MC if it has a 1" bore. But since I just picked up the reservoir for the rebuilt master I bought yesterday, I guess I'll keep trying to make the metric master work.

 

[gsxrken]

Edelmann adapters p/n 265000 & 271300 get you from the metric M/C to regular SAE fittings 3/16ths brake line.

 

[Rusty67]

Edelmann adapters p/n 265000 & 271300 get you from the metric M/C to regular SAE fittings 3/16ths brake line.

Is he on top of it or what ?

 

[69gmachine]

Yep, he is that.

I've already installed the MC. I haven't bench bled it, but I will before hooking up the lines. It went in pretty easy... just a love tap from a rubber mallet persuaded it to go on the booster without having to remove it. It rubbed against the shock tower just a little going on, but not so much it was in danger of being damaged. Once installed there is about an 1/8" of clearance between the end of the MC and the shock tower. It's hard to see just how close it is from the pics Ultrastang posted.

Thanks again to everyone, especially Ultrastang and gsxrken, for helping me resolve this problem. Hopefully, I should be able to start putting the engine in this weekend.

 

[ultrastang]

Is he on top of it or what ?

Yep. Those are the correct numbers, and this is what the metric-to-SAE adapters look like: http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/170/isoadaptersdirectconnecys7.jpg

However, adapters don't make as "clean" an installation as direct-connection fittings, so if you had metric bubble flaring and SAE double flaring tools, you could use the direct connection ISO bubble flare fittings and inverted flare fittings without the adapters in between.

This is a piece of 3/16" brake tubing I was messing around with. I put an ISO metric bubble flare fitting on one end, and a double flare inverted SAE fitting on the other: http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/3205/isobubbleflare002kd5.jpg

 

[Rusty67]

Where did you get the spiral heat disapation stuff that you put on that tubing ?

 

[ultrastang]

Where did you get the spiral heat disapation stuff that you put on that tubing ?

I sell it through my website. I also sell the SAE inverted flare brake line fittings that you generally can't get from most parts stores --sizes 7/16"-24, 1/2"-20, and 9/16"-18.

http://www.ultrastang.com/Ultrainfo.asp?Page_ID=21

I've sold a good bit of the spiral tubing wrap (armor guard), to the point I'm sold out of it right now. I've got some on order and should be in a week or so.

 

[69gmachine]

Yep. Those are the correct numbers, and this is what the metric-to-SAE adapters look like: http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/170/isoadaptersdirectconnecys7.jpg

However, adapters don't make as "clean" an installation as direct-connection fittings, so if you had metric bubble flaring and SAE double flaring tools, you could use the direct connection ISO bubble flare fittings and inverted flare fittings without the adapters in between.

This is a piece of 3/16" brake tubing I was messing around with. I put an ISO metric bubble flare fitting on one end, and a double flare inverted SAE fitting on the other: http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/3205/isobubbleflare002kd5.jpg

Both of my ports on the MC are the same size!?? (very close to the 3/8-24 size)

I also like the clean look of no adapters. While I was pulling the reservoir for the MC at the wrecking yard, I also grabbed both of the lines from the distribution block to the master, so I have plenty of bubble flare fittings to work with. Since I don't own the ISO bubble flare tool, this is my plan: buy a long (36") piece of new tubing with the ISO bubble flares already on it. Cut it in two pieces, slide a standard inverted flare fitting on one end of each piece and re-flare them with a double flare. Then I will have two lines with the correct fittings at each end. The metric tubing may already come with the correct fittings, but I have them if I need them.

 

[Rusty67]

I sell it through my website. I also sell the SAE inverted flare brake line fittings that you generally can't get from most parts stores --sizes 7/16"-24, 1/2"-20, and 9/16"-18.

http://www.ultrastang.com/Ultrainfo.asp?Page_ID=21

I've sold a good bit of the spiral tubing wrap (armor guard), to the point I'm sold out of it right now. I've got some on order and should be in a week or so.

I had no idea anyone sold that stuff. Its been over 3 years since I checked if anyone was selling it. When I put on either my hydroboost or vacume booster I'll provably need new lines so I'll order some from you then.

 

[ultrastang]

I had no idea anyone sold that stuff. Its been over 3 years since I checked if anyone was selling it. When I put on either my hydroboost or vacume booster I'll provably need new lines so I'll order some from you then.

We'll leave the light on for ya!

 

[69gmachine]

Almost finished

Here are some pics of the lines I made tonight.

And here's how they look installed.

 

[Grabber70Mach]

Looks great is there an advantage having the loops in the lines? And how hard is it to do the flares on the lines.

 

[ultrastang]

Looks great is there an advantage having the loops in the lines? And how hard is it to do the flares on the lines.

In any hydraulic system were you have rigid lines, you do not want to make a straight, direct, run of the lines from one port to the other. When pressure forces build up inside the lines, it cause a small degree of flexing. Without a bend, loop, or offset in the line the force would be more concentrated at the ends were the connections are made. This will lead to the failure of the flare on the line, and leaks will occur.

The loops in the lines mostly just help in making it easier to line the fittings up with the threads in the ports to get the fittings started more easily.

A couple of articles on bending/flaring brake line tubing:

http://www.classictrucks.com/tech/0501cl_brake_line_basics/index.html

http://www.carcraft.com/howto/50919/index.html

 

[67efivert]

just food for thought i used an exporler (91-94 ) mc on a fox i built it is built like the one there but the fittings come out the other side and if i rember correctly it had a 1" bore

 

[Grabber70Mach]

In any hydraulic system were you have rigid lines, you do not want to make a straight, direct, run of the lines from one port to the other. When pressure forces build up inside the lines, it cause a small degree of flexing. Without a bend, loop, or offset in the line the force would be more concentrated at the ends were the connections are made. This will lead to the failure of the flare on the line, and leaks will occur.

The loops in the lines mostly just help in making it easier to line the fittings up with the threads in the ports to get the fittings started more easily.

A couple of articles on bending/flaring brake line tubing:

http://www.classictrucks.com/tech/0501cl_brake_line_basics/index.html

http://www.carcraft.com/howto/50919/index.html

Thanks for the information.