Melling oil pump broke like candy cane

Discussion in 'Classic Mustang Specific Tech' started by horse sence, Apr 13, 2013.

  1. horse sence

    horse sence Please don't call me Mom
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    well it's going to be another one of those days:nonono: i started to finnish the motor for the race car this morning and the oil pump suction tube mounting flange breaks off. i didn't even tighten the bolt on the outer edge of the flange and it falls off .its as brittle as a candy cane. this is a Melling pump ,never seen this happen before. i was threading the bolt in by hand and i heard somthing fall into the block ,it went all the way through ,i checked very well. the piece that came off is cracked in the middle also, almost as if it was hit on the corner or droped. it came off in one piece so nothing stayed in the motor .i am glad it did it now instead of later . could have been very expensive. IMG_3005.JPG IMG_3006.JPG
     
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  2. rbohm

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    looks like a bad casting got through. it happens from time to time.
     
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  3. horse sence

    horse sence Please don't call me Mom
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    i decided to at least get the heads on. the head gaskets have front stamped in them and must go to the front or big problems .they may look wrong as one will appear to be upside down but this is correct. got the lifters in ,very well coated with cam lube ,its a comp cam 280 h should not have a problem on break in. the heads are world windsor juniors .they were ran for a very short time on another motor so i broke them down ,cleaned them and slightly laped the valves just for the heck of it. not sure what brand the roller rockers are they were brought to me loose. i am going to adjust the valves with the intake off so i can see that every thing sets correctly. IMG_3013.JPG IMG_3014.JPG IMG_3015.JPG IMG_3016.JPG IMG_3018.JPG
     
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  4. horse sence

    horse sence Please don't call me Mom
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    IMG_3021.JPG IMG_3020.JPG IMG_3022.JPG IMG_3023.JPG IMG_3025.JPG IMG_3026.JPG i ordered a new oil pump yesterday. decided to put the intake on ,its a performer RPM. i started by smearing a very light film of silicone on the head surface and put the gasket in place ,you will notice raised ribs around the port openings. these go down facing the head ,they are stamped HEAD SIDE. again i spread a very light film on the gasket surface . do your self a favor and throw away the cork ends ,they will leak or even squirt out. lay a bead of sealer on the ends of the block where the corks would go about 1/4 inch wide and 1/4 inch tall then set the intake in place,you can look down the bolt holes in the intake to align with the head holes so the sealer doesnt smear away .insert the bolts and torque to specks . DO THIS WHILE THE SEALER IS STILL WET if alowed to dry you will have coolant ,vacume ,and oil leaks
    any sealer that presses out can be trimed away with a box cutter or sharp knife. this one should be leak free:nice:
     
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  5. woodsnake

    woodsnake Active Member

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    Looking real good! I can't wait to get back on my engine...Time for me to get my push rods sized and ordered!
     
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  6. Hack

    Hack Active Member

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    You really gooed up both sides of those intake gaskets. Had trouble with them sealing? They really shouldn't need any silicone.

    If you install the intake over wet silicone (on the end rails) without letting it skim over and harden a little you should definately use some intake bolts cut off for alignment of the intake as it's set down on the engine. If the intake shifts at all out of position it will wipe that wet silicone away and you'll get a vacuum leak. You are better off letting it set up a little before installing the intake.
     
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  7. horse sence

    horse sence Please don't call me Mom
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    it just apears like a lot it is just a film. if allowed to skin you will not get a seal it will be dry against the intake and possibly blow through or leak oil. allow the sealer a couple days to cure before starting motor. when applied wet it bonds to both surfaces
     
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  8. horse sence

    horse sence Please don't call me Mom
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    this image may not be clear enough to read had to blow it up so...
    DIRECTIONS
    1. for best results,clean and dry all surfaces with a residue free solvent
    such as Permatex Brake and Parts cleaner.
    2. cut nozzel to desired bead size-gaskets are best formed using
    a 1/16" to 1/4 " (2-6 mm)bead.
    3. apply a continous and even bead of silicone to one surface,surround all bolt holes. ASSEMBLE PART IMMEDIATLY.finger tighten bolts untill material beguins to squeeze out around flange. allow to dry for one hour then retighten 1/4 -1/2 turn. this i do not agree with torque those bolts.
    4. silicone dries in one hour , and fully cures in 24 allow more time in cold or very dry conditions.
    i see people allowing silicone to skin or dry before assembly all the time this is not correct and there is a very good chance it will fail. prema.jpg
     
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  9. horse sence

    horse sence Please don't call me Mom
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    is this the motor for your cougar? i would sure like to see it finnished.
     
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  10. rbohm

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    when i install intakes, i dont put anything around the intake ports, just the coolant ports, and then it is a thin coat of silicon. once properly torqued i have never had a leak.
     
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  11. horse sence

    horse sence Please don't call me Mom
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    i always use just a film ,added security against vacume leaks
     
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  12. woodsnake

    woodsnake Active Member

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    Horse sence, yes it is..I got the bottom end assembled before I left, and the heads on..I am going to swap to a Weiand stealth intake instead of the 351 air gap that I have on it now. I have one of those cool oval Cougar air cleaners, and want to run that. Plus I need to finish the hydraulic clutch swap, and......
     
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  13. Hack

    Hack Active Member

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    Yes those directions make my point. Don't tighten the bolts too quickly because the wet silicone might get pushed out of the area and you'll end up with a gap. Even just the weight of the intake could cause a problem if you put it down too quickly and then have to shift it a little bit.

    Things might work a little differently in your climate than mine, but if I assemble silicone parts too quickly there is a danger of wiping it away. I want the skin and a little bit of hardening so the silicone will stay in place if parts shift a little during assembly. I can see where you are looking for wet adhesion to both parts - I've found that isn't needed for a good seal. Just think of how silicone oil pan and valve cover gaskets work and can be reused many times. That silicone isn't wet. Since after curing silicone still easily yields and conforms to mating surfaces - it will still make a great seal if there is a skin. The big concern is wiping it away and then there isn't enough available to fill the gaps.
     
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  14. horse sence

    horse sence Please don't call me Mom
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    been building race motors for 25 years or better started out with precision off road race prep built motors for several winning race teams . this is the way race motors are built. i have never had a failure. it is very simple to place an intake without wiping off the sealer. cant figure out why some one would not want to seal the intake runners. have you ever disassembled a production motor that has never been apart? bet that intake didnt just fall off because ford sealed them, the gaskets have to be scraped off. now ford uses somthing like gorila glue but if you should want to take an intake off it isnt easy and i would not use it with an aluminum intake just because you will have to pry it off.
     
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  15. Hack

    Hack Active Member

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    I understand you have a different method and believe in it. :)

    To answer your question - I wouldn't seal the runners because it's extra work that isn't needed. Gaskets do that job already. Maybe 25 years ago gaskets didn't work without help. I don't know; that's before my time. Another reason not to use silicone (in general) is it can squeeze out and get into places you didn't want it to be. Also if you are like me you are only satisfied with a build for a few years and you want to tear it apart and change things up. No silicone in those areas means it's less work to clean up later.

    I'm not saying you're wrong for doing it your way. I am saying that I'm not wrong for doing it my way and that I'm happy with the results I get.
     
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  16. Realmongo

    Realmongo I prefer to be called "Evil Genius"
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    I had the same problem with that pump when I put my 5.0 together. I torqued it up and then noticed the crack and replaced the pump.
     

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  17. horse sence

    horse sence Please don't call me Mom
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    comparing it to an older pump ,it apears they have made this spot thinner . the flange has less material .not good. this worries me .this pump may have been damaged but if not this is going to be a problem. i have a new one on the way if it looks the same i will contact Meling:nonono:
     
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  18. Hack

    Hack Active Member

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    Yeah if the flange became thinner there's a chance the mounting bolt could bottom out in the block before everything's properly tight. .. Something to look out for.
     
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  19. GONDO79

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    I just got my 90s 5.0 back from the shop laat night. I noticed they gave me that same pump, meling m-68hv. Should use it or should I just buy my own? Also I'm gonna put the engine In my 65 coupe, what oil pan are u planning on running? Can i use the oem one that came with it? Or is there a special kind that I need?
     
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  20. horse sence

    horse sence Please don't call me Mom
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    depends on what suspension you have ,stock ,aftermarket. we have a pro g going in and have a canton oil pan made to clear it.
     
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