motor noise vid inside

[95PGTTech]

adam95gt's motor

he can correct me, but I think:

306 cobra motor
stock pistons/rods
.010" over mains
tfs hi ports pedestal mounts
1.6RR
6.7" pushrods
double roller timing chain
stock distributor msd cap stock rotor
melling HV oil pump and oil pump drive



the video can be seen here
http://youtube.com/watch?v=crZnw_WHe3Y

none of the rocker arms were tightened for this so it is certainly not a piston to valve issue as none of the valves should be opening at this point.

the shortblock was assembled so we do not believe it is a bottom end problem, it rotated fine and with no noise. there are machine shop indications of a ring job and a reground crank .010 over.

with the heads and everything you see in the video on EXCEPT the distributor, it did not make this noise.

is this abnormal, or since there is only 1.5 qts oil in the motor right now is this the oil pump sucking air and oil? if I have time today (packing for apartment), I am going to pull the oil pump and the distributor and see if I can isolate which one it is. distributor had a very tough time going in, but this could also be caused by a problem with oil pump/drive. when we were putting distributor in, we looked down the hole and the oil pump drive was centered and looked okay.

could it be an issue with the disty drive on the cam or us not having clocked the disty correct? I've put on in incorrectly before and it never made a noise like this, just obvious run bad or not at all.

 

[Adam95GT]

Keith black flat top .030 pistons.
arp rod bolts.

 

[cbarr300]

kinda makes me think oilpump might be fuxed in there. Think you can take the pan off and maybe loosen the pump up...or maybe put your hand on it to see if you feel it messing up.

a long screwdriver to the ear works well too.

also, you might try spinning the dizzy and see if it makes any noise by itself

good luck

 

[95PGTTech]

This might be a stupid question, but it couldn't be a distributor vs. cam drive issue could it? Ford makes quite a few cam drives for different cams.

It doesn't sound quite like I would imagine that sounding, but it would explain why the distributor was hard to install.

 

[95PGTTech]

kinda makes me think oilpump

what about the oil pump do you think? it's brand new, literally the pump has never been run. defective part?

 

[cbarr300]

when I was building my enine and turned it over with little oil in it..it sounded kinda similar...not quite as loud though.

also...it seems like whatever's making the noise is spinning a good bit faster than the engine. The main thing that comes to mind with that is the oilpump. Valves aren't tightened down so that throws that out.

btw, I don't think it's likely...but I've seen new oilpumps be defective. Hope that isn't the case.

on the dizzy issue...as long as you're using a stock dizzy with a cam meant for out little 302s..then you should be good.

 

[Badazgt.]

so u say the motor turned over nice and easy with just the short block installed right?? one time a buddy of mine put the wrong torque specs on the rods and it sounded almost the exact same

 

[95PGTTech]

sounded great until we put the distributor in.

 

[Adam95GT]

Well chris if you take the ditsy out now.... Does it still make the noise. This engine build is pissing me off!

 

[Adam95GT]

it defniatly sounds like its ecoing in the bottom end

 

[cbarr300]

noise echoing through the pick-up tube?

let us know what happens after he takes the dizzy out

 

[95PGTTech]

Well chris if you take the ditsy out now.... Does it still make the noise. This engine build is pissing me off!

come over when we're putting the forged 4V together. you pushrod guys have it easy. I'm going to have a ton of fun degreeing my cams.

i could just order a forged longblock, ported heads, valvetrain, and cams, but why not make my life difficult to save maybe $100 in the end, considering how many special tools, car downtime, and machine work I'll need anyway. having it easy is so unrewarding anyway. lmao. by the way, I'll need a new set of longtubes for C heads, so I'll be having double the fun, actually.

I'm finally done packing (mostly) so I'm going to go play with it until it pisses me off or it falls off the stand. we need some ARP engine stand bolts. or an ARP engine stand stud kit. can we reuse them for each motor, or are those torque to yield?

 

[95PGTTech]

Alright, more process of elimination:

I filled the motor with four more quarts of oil by pouring it down a funnel down one of the pushrod holes. it has approx. 5.5 qts in it at this point. it still makes the noise.

I went to remove the distributor and saw this:

see the gap? I tried to as humanly as possible wrestle it down farther everything short of hitting it with stuff. tried twisting at the same time, won't budge.

when removed, no noise. dead silent.

distributor gear looks fine
cam gear looks fine rotating the motor twice and looking down the hole
oil pump shaft looks centered



so I remembered adam we still had that other one in the box. I tried that one, it does not sit flush either. I cleaned off all the RTV that had leaked from the upper intake to the distributor hole perfectly clean and still won't go. greased the o-ring again still won't go. it seems to get easier every time but still feels funny.

before I came back upstairs I remembered we have the upper and lower off his 95GT on the other side of the garage. I got a light and tried both distributors in the car. stock everything. and yes, BOTH fit flush and BOTH go in ten times easier, practically drop themselves in by comparison.




So by process of elimination, unless by some freak of nature we have TWO problematic distributors (one which ran up until the day he sat the car), it's either the cam drive gear, the oil pump shaft, or the oil pump. I did rotate it a bunch of times with oil in it to allow it to clear out any air still in the pickup or pump, rotated it probably about 25 times.

 

[95PGTTech]

my next step should be to drop the pan, completely take out the oil pump, pickup, and shaft, and reinstall the distributor, correct? no noise would mean pump or shaft, noise would mean disty gear/cam gear issue?

if the cam was not timed correctly, would this cause the issue? in my motor the cams have to be carefully degreed with a wheel, we did not put the shortblock together so that is something I might want to check.

 

[Badazgt.]

before you pull the pan prime the oil pump with a drill and see if it makes a noice... that would be a better way of diag. the situation...

 

[95PGTTech]

how to do that? I have a socket for my drill that I can use a 1/4" drive extension to get down there, but how do adapt to the oil pump drive? it is six sided if I remember correctly, what size socket will fit on it, 5/16"?

 

[95PGTTech]

I figured it out, and also that when you go with the drill in a tightening direction it makes a bubbling sound (probably going the opposite way)

put the drill in reverse on full speed and it chucks a quart a second out the oil filter hole that you have no oil filter on right onto your genitals. this has been some day, lol.

I believe the size I used for future reference is a 1/4" drive deep 1/4 inch socket

 

[95PGTTech]

it is primed, and the disty still does not sit flush to the block

 

[Badazgt.]

well did u hear the noice?

 

[95PGTTech]

well did u hear the noice?

it has not made the noise since I pulled the distributor today. even after reinstalling it many times. but it still does not sit flush.

oh, I get your reasoning. when I primed the pump if the pump was the problem it would have made the noise. I need to get an oil filter and try again I only did it for a half a second or so and it threw up at least a quart in that time.