My 1970 Mustang project - Frame/Floorpan/Subframes.

Discussion in 'Classic Mustang Specific Tech' started by BlackGMC, Feb 19, 2007.


  1. BlackGMC

    BlackGMC New Member

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    This is my first time posting on this site, I have a 1970 mustang coupe I am working on. I thought I would post up some pics of my homemade frame/body leveler. I am in the process of making new floor pans/Sub frames/rear crossmember/firewall/roll cage. I am basically trying to beef everything up and tie the two subframes together.

    My first step is cutting out the rear torque boxes (I think that is what they are called) and putting a 2X4 cross member w/ intergrated Driveshaft loop where they were located.

    Next step I will tie into the rear and front subframe with some box tubing and join them at the new rear crossmember.

    There is going to be alot more but I will post up some pics as I progress.

    Anyways here are the starting pics. Looks little rough but everyone has got to start somewhere.

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  2. BB1966

    BB1966 New Member

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    Dont go tellin everyone here you are gonna put a LS1 in it.....ooopppsss! Just yankin your chain,its your car and a great project.
     
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  3. BlackGMC

    BlackGMC New Member

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    Yeah I was going to leave that out over here cause I thought I would get flamed pretty bad.
     
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  4. RacerX

    RacerX Founding Member

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    Nice project! I'm creating a frame jig (for lack of a better term) for my project. There are other similarities with my project. Checkout my garage from the link.
     
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  5. Swede958

    Swede958 Founding Member

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    I'm not quite in that same boat, but I'm feeling ya on the floors and stuff. As soon as I can sneak the camera link cord from my folks I'll post the most recent pics of my hibernating stang...
     
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  6. Hack

    Hack Active Member

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    Well, if you are going to put a Chevy engine into a Ford, at least you're considering one of the newer Chevy engines that has been redesigned to be similar to a Ford. The LS1 is still not as good as a Ford, but better than the Chevy engines of the 70s.

    :p :nonono:
     
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  7. Max Power

    Max Power New Member

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    How, exactly, is an LS1 designed like a Ford? Other than the whole "internal combustion" part?
     
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  8. BlackGMC

    BlackGMC New Member

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    Nice Stang, sounds like you have some good plans going. What hood is that? It kinda looks like a 71-72 mixed with a 69-70. I noticed that you want to use a MII front end, I have heard good and bad things (from Pro-Touring.com) about putting them in a older mustang. I still plan on putting one in mine, but I am wondering if any improvements can be made to the design.

    Nice color choice! I noticed you had the 5-leaf mid eye rear springs, did those lower your ride height?
     
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  9. BlackGMC

    BlackGMC New Member

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    I got the rear tourqe boxes (I think they are called that) out yesterday. Also my new rear seat pans came in yesterday.

    [​IMG]
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  10. RacerX

    RacerX Founding Member

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    It's a stock hood with NACA scoops bonded in. I'll be going with a stock style glass hood. I had tossed around an idea of adding small bump scoops on either side of the center contoured feature, much like the grabber mavericks.

    I think most of the problems associated with the MII kits in a classic revolve around the weakening of the front end with the removal of the shock towers. I see no problem if some reinforcement is added to restore structural integrity. I was thinking since I'm basically building a frame, I would like to look into possible improvements as far as the crossmember/engine/steering rack mounting is concerned. I have no intention to re-engineer things like suspension or steering geometry, or component mounting locations, just maybe mounting geometry for clearance or serviceability issues.

    What's your plans for frame upgrades, standard 6 pt cage? Very interesting to follow. :nice:
     
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  11. BlackGMC

    BlackGMC New Member

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    I plan on a stand 6 point cage for the interior and tie into the rear frame rails in 4 spots in the truck (2 on each side), one in the frame rail located and one that goes diagonal to the middle pinion bump stop.

    Kinda like this, please excuse the rough PaintShop editing:

    The dotted red line that bar will be located under the truck sheet metal, attached to the sides of the frame rail.
    [​IMG]

    For the front I plan on something like this:
    The two side bars will be behind the fender aprons but attached to them to add support. I plan to run 1 bar threw the front crossmember tieing both sides together.
    [​IMG]
     
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  12. Hack

    Hack Active Member

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    OT rant engage!! :D
    For starters, firing order and the arrangement of the ports on the heads. The old small block Chivy always used the "old 302" style firing order, which Ford figured out many years ago wasn't the best way. And who would ever think that putting the exhaust ports right next to each other is better than keeping them apart? Another old small block Chivy foible. No wonder Ford looked at Duntov's design and said, "No thanks!"

    Also, the newer "coil on plug" ignition arrangement gets rid of the foolish Chivy idea of putting the distributor in the back of the engine. They finally figured out that it's much more accurate to run the ignition from the front of the engine. Plus it's so much easier to adjust. Duh.

    Now the LS1 is a good motor, for a pushrod design. Too bad Chivy is still using the old pushrod technology instead of a better breathing overhead cam system like Ford. Chivy, still behind the times! :p

    /OFFTOPIC RANT!!
     
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  13. Max Power

    Max Power New Member

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    Well I see a little bias there, but what the heck, gotta be loyal to something. At first I thought you were comparing similar generations, ie Gen III vs. Mod motor. It doesn't make a lot of sense comparing an engine designed in 1960 to one made in the late 90s.

    Let's look at each issue point by point.

    Firing order? Old 302 Fords run great, so do old Chevys, a non-issue, IMO. The differences are miniscule.

    Siamese port exhaust? Well that design came about in the SBC somewhere in 1953-1954, at a time when many engines were running it. I hardly think Chevy copied Ford by ditching siamese ports. You could argue that they copied MOPAR or even there own big block, designed in 1964. To say they copied Ford by ditching siamese ports is a major stretch. Besides, for years SBCs cleaned up on SBFs in every form of racing. I hardly think the siamese ports really held them back.

    Gen III Chevys have no distributor at all, as most modern engines don't. Not sure how they copied Ford on that one. And the dizzy being in the back? It's a little inconvenient, but how many recalls did Chevy have for engine fires? Ford's dizzy is right next to the fuel supply, and many engine fires were the result. Also, Chevy had the sense to put a little trap door in the cap so you can adjust the dwell while the car is running. Ford you has to take it apart and mess with it. Duh.

    An international council just named the LS7 the engine of the year, out of all Mfg's in the world. Not bad for a "pushrod" motor. Plus, the Ford mod motors take up a frightful amount of space for the displacement, which they are consistently short of. And have you ever priced cams? Lordy.

    I'm not a Chevy guy, but I am not gonna let loyalty make me blind. The Gen III Chevs are excellent motors, and they didn't really copy anybody.
     
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  14. BlackGMC

    BlackGMC New Member

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    Please take no offense but could yall please take your arguement to PM's or something. There is really no point in getting into a ****ing match about motors. Which everyone knows it is a no win situation.
     
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  15. Max Power

    Max Power New Member

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    Actually, having either motor is a win in my book. Both can make serious power.

    BTW, I am inpressed with what you are doing to your 70. Mine is waiting for you when you are done!
     
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  16. BlackGMC

    BlackGMC New Member

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    Thanks, i am having fun doing it. I am making progress slowly. I ordered the roll bar yesterday should be here in a couple of days. I am ordering the steel for the rear crossmember today and I will go pick it up tomorrow. Should have some more pics in a few days.
     
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  17. Hack

    Hack Active Member

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    I kinda figured you'd say some of that stuff. If it's isn't a change for the better, why did they change it (firing order and siamese exhaust)? Obviously it cost them a lot of money to change those things and it made the parts non-interchangeable with past designs. So I completely disagree with your statement that there's not much improvement. Obviously the Chivy people also disagree with you. Otherwise they wouldn't have spent so much money to change their engine to be like a Ford.

    Yes I think it's fun to be Ford-biased. It doesn't bother me that you are Chivy biased enough that you can't quite see these things for what they are. I noticed you even had to talk about 60s vs. modern day, complain about Ford's mod motors and even make up something about engine fires! :nonono: If you can't win, change the subject - good tactic. :) I do think the Chivy 350 is a decent motor, mostly because they are cheap and used to be plentiful. They haven't put a good one in a vehicle for an awfully long time though (probably about 35 years!). Too bad GM can't make a cheap fun car like the newer Mustangs, because it's nice to have a little competition.

    To the original poster, sorry for the interruption to your thread, but I think you deserve a little bit of flack for considering putting a Chivy in a Ford. It's going to be a PITA for you to do it and the motor won't be better, so I think you really want to create some controversy and that you enjoy the controversy. Otherwise you wouldn't spend extra money to create something you know others will have strong negative reactions to.
     
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  18. Max Power

    Max Power New Member

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    Hack, I can't figure out if your full of crap or just plain dense. Either way, it's not really what this thread is about, so I'll save any further response for later.

    Back on topic, looking forward to more pics.
     
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  19. Hack

    Hack Active Member

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    No need to get personal and insult me. I know people get upset when their favorite brand of car is insulted. Some times the truth hurts. But since you're a Ford man it shouldn't bother you.

    I'm a bright enough guy; just not a big fan of Chivys or biased toward them at all. Some of my info could be wrong; I don't spend a lot of time researching info on Chevy either. I happen to like Fords and Mustangs in particular. Seriously if I thought Generic Motors made a better small fun car I might buy it. Happens that they don't and haven't for a very long time. Even from a long time ago the Camaro was ok, but still a second rate copy of Ford's better idea. The first couple years they were decent, though. However, people seem to think they are made of gold, even the crappy rusty ones. :SNSign:

    A buddy was looking at an '81 Camaro with a V8 in it. It was a 267 rated at about 100 hp when new!! They offerred a 350 as an option that year, he told me the 350 was rated at 130 hp! Nice, huh? :p
     
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  20. BlackGMC

    BlackGMC New Member

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    Hack, Max Power, No biggy on the interruption, it is always interesting to hear peoples opinions. As far as my engine choice, well I really like the LSX platform, it is just my opinion. I like what it can do and I am familar with it. I know ford makes a good motor, I had several 302s in this car for many years, but I perfer the LSX engine. I really love my mustang, I have had since I was 17, and I have done all the work myself so I am really partial to the car, I would not want anything else. Since I am going threw all this work to build the car of my dreams (Again), which I have been planning for years, I want it exactly the way I want it. I knew the engine choice was going to cause controversy when I posted on this site and if you notice I did not bring it up, someone else brought it up.

    Anyways guys, this Ford vs Chevy war could go on forever, both have there pros and cons. This thread is about rear suspension and floorpans so can we call a truce? No harm no foul.

    Thanks
     
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