My build log: 66 coupe, will be 4.6L DOHC

Discussion in '1965 - 1973 Classic Mustangs -General/Talk-' started by wicked93gs, Mar 9, 2009.

  1. wicked93gs

    wicked93gs New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2006
    Messages:
    565
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Nashville TN
    well, I decided i would start another log(since the last time when my SHO engine was stolen)

    This time, this is the plan, the basics:
    66 coupe
    4 wheel disc brakes
    8.8" rear end
    4.6L DOHC engine
    t5 transmission
    mustang II front suspension

    Now keep in mind...these are some ugly welds,I'm not a professional welder and I havent cleaned them up yet(they may be ugly but they are strong, that much I can say) , its only painted to prevent rust....anyway some pictures....

    [​IMG]
    this picture amused me...you dont see it in this stage too often...I have decided I absolutely HATE spot welds....there were about 20 on each shock tower assembly at the bottom holding it to the frame, the top part I just cut away rom the sheet metal with a grinder and a cut off wheel, like butter. I actually cut from the wheel well, since I was planning on welding in the patch panels, you can just follow the line of the shock tower at the back....if you go the other way and bolt them in, you wouldnt be able to do it this way

    [​IMG]
    this picture always makes the frame rails look so spindly, but I will tell you....there is no way this actually compromises the structural integrity of the front end....the shock towers transfer all the load to the frame...its the only possible thing that can happen...the sheet metal of the inner fenders is so thin there is absolutely NO WAY it can bear any load whatsoever...and if it did, the patch panels will bear the same amount of load, besides the boxing plates of the heidts kit go a long way toward making the frame stronger than it was originally anyway...I have no doubts about the strength of the setup...howerver I will be running firewall to fram re-inforcement anyway because there is one thing the shock towers do....triangulation in the form of the export brace....so to get that back I plan on tubing running from the firewall, behind the patch panels, then down to the frame, just so i can get some strength to mount an export brace and monte carlo bar to.
    On another note...I left the stock sway bar mounting brackets in place, thinking they wouldnt get in the way...wrong, ended up having to cut them out to mount the heidts sway bar later on...more spot welds

    [​IMG]
    the patch panels welded in(dont get m started on my crappy mig welder...this job was a huge headache because of it...I tried to install the frame stuff with it, but it did such a crappy job I had to go out and buy an Arc welder and redo the entire install...my welds are still ugy though...anyway, the mig welder sometimes does an ok job on sheet metal)

    [​IMG]
    worse than the welder though is was this...the f#$%*^& coil spring....getting this damn thing compressed without an engine weighing down the front end was enough o drive me crazy...it took me 8 HOURS to get one compressed with a combination of a jack under the lower ball joint and a sring compressor....the spring compressor by itself didnt work...and if you used the jack my itself it would pick the car up off the jackstands and make it try to fall. In fact it did fall once, but I luckily had wheels under the frame rails to catch it, so no harm done(other some nicks in the ugly wheels)...anyway, it was a delicate process, but once I got one side done, the other side was easy...one other thing here...lower shock mounting points were too close together for the shock to fit it...I actually had to grind the lower shock mount a bit to get them to fit

    [​IMG]
    one of the tie rod ends(cant see it in this picture) was threaded incorrectly and would not go onto the steering rack, I had togo buy a new one, looks just a little different, but has a lifetime warranty

    [​IMG]
    and here we have the mostly completed install....the welds on the patch panels mostly ground down, the holes filled, etc etc, the suspension components have to all come off again at some point to be painted, I just wanted to get it all together first so i could roll it around as needed

    my impressions with the Heidts mustang II kit:

    its as strong as the stock setup, without additional bracing, the only thing it lacks is the triangulation provided by the export bace...I'm working on that by adding additional bracing.

    very good quality welds, good workmanship on all the parts made by Heidts.

    very poor instructions...the things were vauge almost to the point of uselessness, no pictures...just a general assembly diagram with no details...they could definately work on their instructions...its a good thing I have had years of experience in this type of deal(other than the welding) otherwise I might not have been able to finish the install without a dozen phone calls

    Poor customer service...Ok, well thats not really true...I only made one call to Heidts(mainly because they arent open weekends which is when I did most of the work) I called asking about 4.6L engine mounts...was told they had never been asked about that before and they thought they may be the same as 5.0L mounts(which may be the case...still waiting on my engine) but they claimed people were installing them without a problem. Ok, not a problem for me yet...was expecting to fab my own anyway, I then asked for torque specifications and was told they dont provide torque specifications...some liabaility issue...thats fine too, except it seems to me they would be more liable by NOT providing specs when someone goes and just hand tightens everything...I could see them providing specs, just providing a legal disclaimer too...that would make more sense, they told me they provide general torqu specs for the grade of bolt used...which doesnt help me much, so now I have no idea what to torque my bolts to...not an issue for months to come, but the whole call made me come away feeling like they were pretty much worthless for information

    other than the instructions and customer service, I think its a very good kit, and is definately worth the money spent....that being said, if I had to do it again i would seriously think about going with a R&C or TCI kit...but I was able to get this gt for $1800 shipped to my door...however I didnt get the fancy brakes or coilovers

    On to other things beside the MII kit....I already hav e the 8.8" rear installed and have for years...it already has rear disc, so that part is finished. I have the T5, just waiting for my engine to arrive so I can adapt it, fab up some mounts, I plan on pushing the engine as far back as possible to try to push back the shifter loation...this combined with my 1" deeper bellhousing should result in a more favorable shifter location...still may end up having to build a shift linkage an remote shiffter similar to what mustangs plus sells and build a console to cover it, we'll see whether 2-3 inches will make enough difference
     
    #1
  2. latamud

    Founding Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2002
    Messages:
    782
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    17
    Location:
    Ohio
    Now this picture makes me think you might be able to fit a 17x9 up front.
    [​IMG]

    Find someone local that has a wheel and tire to the specs you want that you could do a test fit on. Maybe have some different size spacers to test with, and prop the fender up to make sure you have outward clearances too. Maybe seeing that tire there without a fender on gives the illusion of extra clearance.

    I like this idea although I think with your 1" backed bell, and moving the engine back you will be happy where the shifter lands. I like the idea of the robo shifter and covering it with a console. I'm planning a similar mod based off this mod I found.
    [​IMG]
    The guy used an upper ball joint as a shifter. I'd like to go with a lower profile console.

    You're gonna have so much fun with this car.
     
    #2
  3. jlangholzj

    jlangholzj Advanced Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2006
    Messages:
    1,662
    Likes Received:
    101
    Trophy Points:
    73
    Location:
    SW minnesota
    :hail2:

    We're comming along quite nicely on our camaro project as well. Only thing is yours is a bit more interesting!

    have fun with it, I'm looking forward to more progress!
     
    #3
  4. wicked93gs

    wicked93gs New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2006
    Messages:
    565
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Nashville TN
    I know...I dont have fenders yet...bought the car as a rolling shell, fenders are one of the next things on my list...after I install my wiring kit, as for that "robo shifter" that is very creative, but you're right, I think i would like it somewhat lower profile too...maybe if the shifter(tranny side) mounting point were lowered a bit it would still work? down to the top hole would be low enough for me...in the end I would like a console that comes out looking something like the 68 shelby console

    speaking of wiring...any suggestions for the fuse box location? I am thinking I want it in the trunk...I dont want to have to cram myself up under the dash every time I need to replace a fuse(I'm 6'3")...I was thinking maybe I could have the battery, ECU, and fusebox all back in the trunk, maybe make some type of housing box with an access door to get it out of immediate sight
     
    #4
  5. latamud

    Founding Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2002
    Messages:
    782
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    17
    Location:
    Ohio
    Alight, you're a tall one. I removed the driver's side seat riser and added some reinforcement underneath to get head clearance.

    The fuse box in the trunk is a clean idea. You will need longer wires or try a trunk mount painless (painfull) kit.

    You are correct about the shifter mod, I would mount the tie bar lower on both tranny and rear shifters.
     
    #5
  6. wicked93gs

    wicked93gs New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2006
    Messages:
    565
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Nashville TN
    well, I actually got a universal harness meant for a pickup(I figured longer wires are never a bad thing) so i should have plenty of length. I decided 40+ year old wiring has to go now before it can cause issues later, it also gives me an opportunity to wire tuck the engine bay, hopefully it will come out with no visible wiring(I will be using an EDIS-8 unit though...might have to mount that up under the dash and pass the wires through a grommet)
     
    #6
  7. wicked93gs

    wicked93gs New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2006
    Messages:
    565
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Nashville TN
    [​IMG]

    one of the next things on the list....though I really think the car needs to be media blasted first and some bodywork done, depending on what a local bodyshop or collision center would charge to do a rotisserie interior/exterior media blast
     
    #7
  8. edgars23

    edgars23 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2006
    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    7
    Location:
    Los Angeles Area
    not bad so far. much better welding than what i can do.
     
    #8
  9. wicked93gs

    wicked93gs New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2006
    Messages:
    565
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Nashville TN
    had to go buy an engine hoist today, been working on sanding and finishing the engine bay panels, will pick up the engine this week sometime and hopefully have it sitting in the bay by the end of the weekend, after I finish welding up all the holes I wont be using
     
    #9
  10. co6b5ra

    co6b5ra Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2003
    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Location:
    bettendorf IA
    Here are some of my pics from when I fabed my motor mounts. I put a large radius on the corners and cleaned them up since these pics but you can get the general idea. I also had to put a large notch in the back of the crossmember to clear the oil pan. After cutting the notch I then boxed it all back in.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    #10
  11. wicked93gs

    wicked93gs New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2006
    Messages:
    565
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Nashville TN
    Alright, some updates, its coming along somewhat anyway.....

    [​IMG]
    been working on the engine bay quite a bit lately....this is after the first coat of primer...the bits of masking tape are areas I still need to do some work on, mostly very minor stuff...the bay still isn't perfect, but at least its not much worse than the factory stuff

    [​IMG]
    finally got my new engine...I kept looking and found a '94 Mark VIII engine with just 20k miles....it does however need a new valve cover...not a big deal

    [​IMG]
    another shot of the engine...this should fill up the mile of empty engine bay nicely(just imagine it without any of the wires visible and much cleaned up, notice how the cylinder banks are offset slightly....this actually works to my advantage with the firewall being offset slightly as well, I might possibly be able to get it closer to the firewall than most installs

    [​IMG]
    A pleasant surprise for me...I had a set of UPR fuel rails for a 5.0L just sitting around....guess what? it looks like they bolt right up...or will if I can find a couple more mounting brackets for them(or fab my own)...the fuel injector spacing is correct,I hate the fact they are blue though...will have to paint them or somehow de-anodize them
     
    #11
  12. wicked93gs

    wicked93gs New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2006
    Messages:
    565
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Nashville TN
    I forget...which oil pan did you use? I'm not sure I'll need to notch the x-member with the Mark VIII pan...its a pretty severe rear-sump with a side resevoir...I'll take a picture next time, do you have any header clearance issues with those mounts? I was thinking of using the 5.0L bracket hole mounts and adapting them for the 4.6L....evidently looking at the mark viii mount it used a similar system

    p.s. I plan on my engine being much closer to the firewall too....as close as I can get it
     
    #12
  13. co6b5ra

    co6b5ra Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2003
    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Location:
    bettendorf IA

    Mine hit with the stock Mustang pan, which is a rear sump also. However if you move you engine back it should clear. To move it back you wil probaly have to ditch the stock oil filter adapter/lower water inlet as it will hit your upper a-arm mount even with a remote oil filter. Moroso and several others offer a much more compact part to achieve this. It uses AN fittingsto hook up the oil and water. I would have definatly gone this route, but that part was not available when I started this project.

    My mounts clear everything by a mile, but with the turbo my exhaust goes forward.

    I am not sure what tranny you are going to run, but I also had to cut my tunnel out to get a decent angle on the engine/trans. Even mounting the enginge as low as possible (1/8" off the rack) I had to raise my TKO about 1" above the stock tunnel to achieve a 3 degree angle on everything. I have a friend that did not do this and it worked but he has been fighting a vibration that he can not find:notnice:
     
    #13
  14. wicked93gs

    wicked93gs New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2006
    Messages:
    565
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Nashville TN
    I was going to use the t5...which almost works except for a starter alignment issue I am trying to work out....if I cant, I'll use a t-45 or 3550 instead, no TKO or T56 so with any luck I should be able to achieve the proper angle without hacking up the tunnel
     
    #14
  15. shelby69

    shelby69 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2002
    Messages:
    100
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    allentown
    Looks like a really cool project. Keep the pictures and descriptions coming.
     
    #15
  16. wicked93gs

    wicked93gs New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2006
    Messages:
    565
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Nashville TN
    well, not any real progress...lets call them visual thoughts

    [​IMG]
    this is the bellhousing from my 01 mstang v6 T5 mocked up to the 4.6L block...as you see in this picture the dowl is slightly too large to go into the 3.8L bellhousing boss hole...presumably if you drill the boss out(and through the backside of the boss then use a washer you can actually use these dowel holes to mount the bellhousing

    [​IMG] another picture of the boss from the backside....drilled out these could be two mounting points

    [​IMG] the top two holes line up perfectly...that makes for 4 mounting holes so far....

    [​IMG]
    overall picture of the 3.8L bellhousing on the 4.6L block

    [​IMG] and here is the main issue using a t5 on the 4.6L block...the starter hole is completely different....but I have 2 solutions
    1. Cut away the portion of the block that blocks the use of a 3.8L starter on this bellhousing(I wont be cutting up my block....but this solution would work and has been done before once to my knowledge)
    2. A much more elegant and easy solution(to me anyway) I will go to the junkyard and find a 93-up 4.6L tranny...manual or automatic...doesnt matter...I will then cut off the entire starter mounting portion of its bellhousing...possibly a little bit more, enough to gain an additional one or two mounting points, then I'll bolt this partial bellhousing to the block and mount a starter in it....i wil then make a template and cut away the 3.8L bellhousing around that area....I will bolt up the cut-up 3.8L bellhousing to the block(which at this point will be notched around the partial 4.6L bellhousing) then I will weld them together for a hybrid 4.6L/3.8L bellhousing. This bellhousing is large enough for a standard cobra clutch and flywheel to operate fine, the only area I dont have info on yet is the pilot bearing, but I am sure I can fab something to work, now you may ask why i dont just go buy a t45 or 3550(3450, whatever) quite simply because this tranny has 20k miles and I already have it....calling around people want $700+ for a t45 with 168k miles...its ridiculous...when I can get a partial bellhousing from the junkyard for $20, then pay someone $50 to weld it up(I do have a mig welder that can weld aluminum, but I think the material is too thick for it to work well...maybe, alternatively I can buy some of those aluminum brazing rods and braze it together as well...I have heard they work well with proper prep)

    p.s For those thinking of builing a 4.6L and would like to use a t5 and dont mind a cast iron block, early 91-92 4.6L used the SBF bolt pattern so its a direct bolt up....DOHC heads will swap onto any 4.6L block with all the correct parts...just some interesting info
     
    #16
  17. latamud

    Founding Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2002
    Messages:
    782
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    17
    Location:
    Ohio
    Hmmmmmmmm.
     
    #17
  18. wicked93gs

    wicked93gs New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2006
    Messages:
    565
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Nashville TN
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    some pictures after I sprayed the engine bay...I used Rustoleum hammered paint...I'll say that it looks nothing like the cap advertises...but I was happy with the finish anyway...it actually comes out with a wrinkle finish, regardless, it did the job of hiding my imperfections pretty well...let me know what you think...its starting to look like an engine bay again....I need two more coats that I'll do later today and hopefully be able to test fit my engine tonight
     
    #18
  19. krash kendall

    krash kendall Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2004
    Messages:
    1,266
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Aldergrove, B.C. Canada
    Looks great!

    By the way, I don't think a crossmember made of cardboard will support that 4.6 modular.....
     
    #19
  20. wicked93gs

    wicked93gs New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2006
    Messages:
    565
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Nashville TN
    you would be surprised....cardboard can be pretty strong...after all, Kohler ships their cast iron sinks(70ish lbs) in cardboard boxes, heavy duty ones though, I figured I might as well try it for an engine if its good enough for kohler


    in other news, I have decided the Mark VIII intake manifold is just about worthless....first off, evidently whoever pulled the engine dented 2 of the runners doing so...flow reduction is never good....the throttle body air intake flange is broken a bit too....so I am debating on what I need to do....either pay $500 for a 96-98 cobra intake and TB(not my first choice) or fabricate my own sheetmetal intake...a much more attractive option...I presumably can weld it with my mig welder, but I have been considering those aluminum brazing rods instead(since my mig sucks) the HS2000s I believe....from what I have read on some of my old forums people have come out with good results..and since they only cost what a 2lb spool of aluminum wire costs, its worth a shot....also the throttle body design is awful IMO, the oval opening is hard to adapt anything to(especially boost piping...which is included in plans down the road so i will take care of that at the same time)...I am thinking possibly dual 52-60mm throttle bodies will do the trick, easy enough to find in the junkyard on an ATX neon or stratus....the rear entry of the mark viii manifold is another feature I dislike...since I can't do a front entry since thats where the alternator will sit....I might split it around the alternator on either side facing front to keep the linkage as simple as possible(and to keep it as symetrical as possible for my future twin turbos..)
     
    #20

Share This Page