My headers wont fit

[65fastbackresto]

New Patriot Tri-Y`s, and the passenger side one wont clear the bellhousing, right at the starter ring.

Are their different types of bellhousings? Or do yall think its the header.

If the ring on the bellhousing wasn`t there, this thing would be laying right on the starter.

 

[D.Hearne]

Many headers work with the smaller 157 tooth bells but won't clear the 164 tooth bell. You can try tweaking them to fit.

 

[65fastbackresto]

Tweaking it?

They are ceramic coated, they look like they got twisted in the jig maybe. The pipe is fine until it gets to the spot about 1/2 way down where all the pipes join into one, there is a weld there all the way around the pipe, and its pointed kinda toward the tranny at a little bit of an angle from that point on.

I test fit them before I hung the bellhousing on, the driver side was pointed straight as an arrow toward the back of the car, and the passenger side was pointing toward the tranny.

I just ordered a set of FlowTechs, maybe they`ll work.

If they weren`t ceramic I`d take them to my pipe guy, but I`m trying really hard to stay with a ceramic header, maybe it`ll look good for alot longer.

 

[D.Hearne]

What transmission do you have ? C-4 ? If so is it a "pan fill" or a "case fill" ?

 

[65fastbackresto]

Its a C-4

But I dont know what case fill vs pan fill is. Can you define each I might be able to tell. It has the dipstick tube that comes up right by the firewall if that helps any.

I dont know if it makes any difference or not, but at this point the only thing on the back of the motor is the bellhousing, I was only doing a mock up to make sure everything fit before I tried to stab everything in without knowing. The tranny is still on the shop floor.

 

[D.Hearne]

Pan fill, the dipstick tube goes into the transmission pan, you cannot miss this feature if you look. Case fill, the dipstick tube goes into the transmission case directly behind the bell housing. The Pan fill C-4's (also known as a C-5) used the larger 164 tooth bellhousing. Many headers clear the 157 but won't on a 164. The rear of the block is the same but the bellhousing dimensions are larger for the larger flywheel/flexplate.

 

[65fastbackresto]

Ok, its a pan fill.

However, the bellhousing came off something else. Now you`ve got me wondering what flywheel the parts guy sold me too....

Now if the bellhousing is smaller on the smaller flywheel diameter, as long as the flywheel and bellhousing are appropriate to each other it shouldn`t matter if I have the larger or smaller should it? Or am I gonna have issue stuffing the larger one into the tranny tunnel maybe.

 

[65fastbackresto]

Update

Its 164 tooth, just counted.

Is the 157 tooth smaller diameter, therefore able to use smaller bellhousing?

 

[D.Hearne]

Its 164 tooth, just counted.

Is the 157 tooth smaller diameter, therefore able to use smaller bellhousing?

Yea, that's correct. Swap the bell for the smaller 157 tooth model (along with the 157 flexplate and your problem should go away. Does the dipstick tube go into the case or pan ? If into the pan, do the headers clear the dipstick tube? I just reinstalled the C-4 in my 77 Comet today and it's got a 157 tooth bell. The fit is so tight, I had to get it up between the headers on it's side, then rotate it into place. But these are Hedman 4 into 1's.

 

[65fastbackresto]

Dipstick goes in the pan

Dont know if it`ll clear the dipstick tube, I aint got one yet. Gonna clear up this bellhousing issue today I hope....

 

[D.Hearne]

The only thing I'm not 100% sure of is whether the smaller bell will work on a pan fill C-4/5. You'd have to ask a transmission guy that or maybe someone else here knows.

 

[65fastbackresto]

Think I should just try this bigger bell?

I`m thinking if it`ll fit worst case I could go a set of the 289 Hi Po manifolds for the exhaust if its that tight.

 

[65fastbackresto]

I need a 157 tooth bellhousing

Yes the small one. There is a 157 tooth flywheel that requires a 1 inch smaller diameter bellhousing then the 164 tooth bell and housing I currently have.

I now have 2 sets of headers that wont clear this thing. The FlowTechs are closer fit then the Patriots though.

TCI and Lakewood carry them, but they are all dual pattern bellhousings in the larger size with cutouts for the smaller bell included in the bolt pattern. Not to mention either one is over $350 bucks.....

Anyone know where I can turn on this one?

 

[D.Hearne]

You need to hunt down an O.E. 157 tooth bell. These were used in all the small and intermediate Fords & Mercs with the C-4. Check the classifieds here, Ebay, or your local junkyards and transmission shops. I just bought a complete C-4 from a guy who converted his 68 Stang to a T-5 for $150. I'd sell it but I'm going to use it in my 89 Ranger to swap out the Toploader 4 speed in it. Going to sell the Ranger eventually.

 

[65fastbackresto]

This is gonna be fun

Took me about 25 phone calls just to find the tranny, C-4`s are getting hard to find folks, keep em if you got em.

 

[65fastbackresto]

Wow I got one

Had to dig it out of a car that had grass and briars growing up thru the hood. Hopefully this will be the last hard to find part......maybe......

 

[Rusty67]

Took me about 25 phone calls just to find the tranny, C-4`s are getting hard to find folks, keep em if you got em.

Here in LA you can't give one away. Sorry it took you so much effort to find one man. Good luck geting everything to finally fit.

 

[65fastbackresto]

This has been a mess

About 6 weeks ago, I drop my tranny off at a tranny shop, 3 1/2 weeks later I went and picked it up, the guy hadn`t touched it and I told him he had missed his chance. I went to Advance Auto Parts and ordered one, 2 weeks later it shows up with no bellhousing (of course). I find a bell, its too big for the headers to clear, I THEN discover with the help of you guys that I need a small bellhousing, I find one luckily. Thats when I find out the tranny from Advance was wrong one, so i take back and order another, now I`m waiting 2 more weeks on it.....

Long story short guys, 8 weeks to get a freaking tranny........

Lesson learned here, guys are into instant gradification, when they want something they want it right then. I`m very guilty of this one. This is God`s way of teaching me patience....that sometimes I have to wait on something good to happen.

 

[D.Hearne]

Don't feel like the Lonesome Stranger. Been there- Done that.......... It's only been in the last 15 years or so, that I've learned to have patience and wait for what I want, at the price I want it at. Otherwise I'm a take it or leave it kind of buyer. You don't like my offer? You want HOW much for it ? Fine, I can wait. I blew the C-4 in my 77 Comet back at the first of June, I've just got it back in the car last weekend. What did it cost me ? $30 for fresh transmission oil. My Transmission guy is a die hard Ford man, he has yet to charge me a dime for his labor. ( I did "donate" a bunch of parts he can use that I had no use for though )

 

[65fastbackresto]

Header fits now....

Bellhousing is on, header fits pretty good but is actually touching the bellhousing, think I may put some heat wrap tape around it right there.

One issue though, I dont have a block plate yet (the peice behind the flywheel), and they appear at this point to be rather hard to find. Is this peice absolutely necessary?