My Turbo Education:

Discussion in '1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk-' started by madmike1157, Nov 8, 2013.

  1. madmike1157

    madmike1157 the humor is still lost on me
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    I built one of those DIY PnP megasquirts the very first time I built a kit. It was about 400.00 w/ all of the stuff to check the build. ( another kit called a "stimulator"). I opted for the 4 bar map sensor, the boost controller, and the various tuning cables.

    I'd say that the kit is a 7-8 out of 10 on the difficulty scale to build, test, and program. Although everything is there to help you build one of these kits, it does require a certain technical proficiency w/ a soldering iron, and a decent understanding of computers. Even though there is a base map from a late model 5.0 fox mustang to use, they still will tell you its up to you to do the fine tuning to get it right.

    You can buy it all assembled, and ready to go as well, but it is more money, (like a couple of hundred dollars more.) Regardless of which way you go, you will still have to fine tune it after start up.

    This current car I am building another MSII kit for it. I started on it, but w/ all of the stuff there is to do on this car, I just put all of the stuff back in the box, for another day.
     
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  2. stangboy

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    Sounds a little more in-depth than my knowledge can handle. It also sounds very tedious and time-consuming. If I go that route I will definately have to pay somebody to do all the tuning on it. That may be the turbo deturant for me. I might have to just stick with giggle gas for a power adder. :shrug:
     
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  3. A5literMan

    A5literMan Mustang Master

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    Actually they have a complete kit that installs in about an hour that is loaded(like mike said) with a stock tune. While you def would want to adj especially with any forced induction. I am just stating what I've researched. I have not used it yet. Costs just under 900$ but it's a standalone sys with great deal of tuning capabilities. I actually have a very good tuner (mike post) 45 minutes from me for when I want to maximize the tune
     
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  4. stangboy

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    Well when/if I decide to go with a turbo I will definately keep the MS in mind.
     
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  5. 84Ttop

    84Ttop They make new pistons every day, so why worry?
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    Just my .02 cents. I would start learning the tuning aspect of things on a normally aspirated vehicle. They are far more forgiving that a boosted one. Like most other things there is a learning curve but it's not out of the question that you can do it. I'm at a point where I elected to get help with the tuning on mine and have a good friend that is an excellent tuner. While he has taught me a lot I'm hesitant to touch the tune up in the Ttop car. A lot of the street car stuff I'm not as shy about or hesitant at all. I also have use of a dyno which is an invaluable tuning tool. We used to tune cars on the street years ago, not only is it not safe, it just doesn't yield the same results.
     
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  6. Decipha

    Decipha Member

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    in your case i think youd be better off sticking with the stock ecu, its already in there wired up and operating the engine

    just get a chip for it and youd be set they are quite simple ecus

    i dont recommend MS to anyone whom doesnt have a background in computers

    boosted engines arent really any different than NA engines, just give them a little more fuel and a little less spark

    if you get some free time check out these ford tuning write ups, will give you a lot more insight as to how the ecu works

    http://www.efidynotuning.com/ford
     
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  7. stangboy

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    Thanks for all the input/insight guys. Sorry for highjacking your thread @madmike1157
     
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  8. madspeed

    madspeed Colonel Mustard
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    Mike, why did you return the ebay turbo so quickly? I realize they arent gonna last for 40k miles or anything, but you've read all the good reviews over on TTF... Just wondering why such a quick change in mind?
     
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  9. madmike1157

    madmike1157 the humor is still lost on me
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    I'm gonna drive this car. I put a little under 12k miles on the last project car over the last year it was complete, and this car will see at least that PLUS have a power adder on it. I wanted the piece of mind from not having to worry about the thing failing at some distant car show.

    I bought it w/o really paying attention to its spec, and found out too late that I had committed to a tiny 52mm inducer after the purchase.( I read alot after purchasing it, and decided that I actually needed a bigger unit)
     
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  10. 84Ttop

    84Ttop They make new pistons every day, so why worry?
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    I remain firm in saying that we could have made this work on the lawn mower...
     
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  11. f8tlfiveo

    f8tlfiveo My wife likes my spool and blow-off valve.

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    Didn't know you were on here mike, I am graduating in 4 weeks. So I might be putting the explorer intake, injectors and mass air on soon. I will obviously need you to work your magic to make my beast run correctly. Guess I gotta get the wideband hooked up too.. Might be a little longer than I thought, but it is now on my radar at least.
     
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  12. madmike1157

    madmike1157 the humor is still lost on me
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    :doh: how much faster could you mow MY lawn then?.......With my chinese turbo, on YOUR lawn mower?
     
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  13. NIKwoaC

    NIKwoaC 中國製造

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    Decipha, you da man. That is quite the website.
     
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  14. madmike1157

    madmike1157 the humor is still lost on me
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    So on Friday last week I go to my new "turbo guy". ( You know,....the one I paid 685.00 for his expertise);)

    Talk migrates to his recommendation that I use a twin scroll turbo, w/ the benefit being a quicker spool response. I tell him that the only problem I have w/ a twin scroll turbo, is the fact that I'll have to use two waste gates. He tells me that if that's a problem,..we could use a standard flange turbo instead. No,...no if you're telling me that the engine will run better w/ a twin scroll turbo, then that's what we'll do.

    "You know what to do w/ the exhaust header design?" he asks. "Yeah,..I gotta build two separate headers combining 3 tubes from the front 3, and the other 3 tubes from the rear 3 of the firing order."
    "What are you gonna use to build it?" he asks. "Well I can't tig,..and my friend that can is 40 miles away, so I was gonna build it out of mild steel header tubing".
    "Ever hear of steam pipe?" he asks. "No,..... where can I get it?"
    He gives me McMaster-Carr's website. I go home and check it out.

    Steam pipe comes in 3 versions; Schedule 10 304L, and 316L stainless ( which is about .100 thick) and schedule 40 mild steel ( which is .145 thick) You can get mandrel bends in a tight 90, a sweep 90, and a 45. The sweep 90 in 304L stainless was about 8.00 ea, and in mild steel it was 12.00.

    I laid out my exhaust system,....and trying to keep the tubes as equal length as possible, it was gonna require 26 bends, and about 4' of tubing. If I built it out of stainless I could use my mig since it was so thick, but I was gonna need a bottle of argon gas,..and a roll of stainless wire. ( another 120.00 possible dollars)

    One thing I wasn't gonna do, was try and build the header flange out of stainless. Having a mild steel header flange, and welding 304L stainless to it could be done, and it would stick,..but stainless expands like mad when heated, at a different rate than the mild steel flange I was gonna use, so again.....concerned w/ longevity, and the finished integrity of the project I decided to build the exhaust out of mild steel despite the additional cost of the bends.

    But first,...I had to appease the cheap-ass in me.

    On Saturday, I get up at 7AM. If there was anyplace in this city that I might find these steam pipe bends it was 5 points hardware. A hardware store like we all remember hardware stores,....w/ the big bins full of nails sold by the hand full, all kinds of stuff jammed into every possible nook that had been there for 50 years,.......ran by one of the biggest crotchedy ass holes in the city, still using a hand cranked calculator/cash register to figure up his tickets.

    I enter his store at 8AM.

    "I'm looking for steel steam pipe butt weld, schedule 40, 90 degree mandrel bends,...do you have such an animal?"
    "Nope,.....all we have are regular black steel, and galvanized steel plumbing fittings back there". He just points in the general direction w/o any indication he intended to help me.

    I wander back till I find the bins full of the assorted sizes, and bends. I look around for a tape measure to measure the actual I.D. of the fittings to see what might work. I go back up front to see if I can borrow one.
    "The fittings are marked w/ the appropriate sizes". He said, "You don't need to measure them". He decides for me.
    "I'm not using them as intended" I reply,..."I'm trying to build an exhaust system".

    He gives me a disgusted look and tosses me a yard stick.

    I needed an actual i.d. of 1.5". Plumbing sizes come starting at 1/2";3/4";1";1-1/4";1-1/2"; and 2".
    None of the rated sizes actually came anywhere near the rated size.......a 1.5" 90 was closer to 2" i.d.,.....and there were those threads.......somehow I had to get rid of the threads. After spending an hour there, I determined that 1" fittings were probably gonna be close to 1.5" by the time I ground away the threads. How much were these things anyway?

    I go back up front, carrying a 1" 90.

    " How much are these fittings?" I ask.....He says that the prices are all on a chart above the fittings.......like I'm supposed to just know that. "Prices are subject to change though,...that chart is old". He adds.

    I go back,...find the chart,..prices state that the black steel 1" 90's are $1.69 ea. I get my 26 fittings, and (3) 12" pieces of 1-1/4" pipe, and make my way up front.
    Dude pecks and cranks, pecks and cranks,..until his 80 year old calculator tells him to charge me $111.98

    "111.98"? I ask......"How's that?" He spins his hand written invoice around to show me that his math was correct.....

    26 1" Black steel 90's..................@ $2.69...= 69.94
    3 12" 1-1/4" threaded pipe nipples @ 8.29.= 24.87
    1 Gallon muriatic acid (to get rid of rust) = 6.99

    10% tax..........................................................=10.18

    TOTAL 111.98

    "But the price on the chart says that the fittings are 1.69,...not 2.69" I point out ( Never mind that I completely blow off contesting the $8.29 PER FOOT charge on the 1-1/4 pipe)
    "He reminds me that he told me that the prices were "subject to change".

    I give him my credit card.

    On my way home,..I stop in an Bluff park hardware just to be sure they didn't have the steam pipe fittings. The guy that works there is the polar opposite of grump ass downtown.

    "No,...but you can get them at M&R pipe,...or American pipe,...but they're not open today" helpful dude informs me.

    That brings me to this morning. Promptly at 8AM,...I call the guy at M&R pipe. I tell him what I need.

    I also add that if he has the CHINESE or MALAYSIAN castings, and if they are significantly cheaper than the domestic castings,..that's what I want.

    He does,...and they are,.......he quotes me $ 4.00 ea. I'm there within 30 minutes.

    Immediately after that,..I pay a visit to the hardware troll.

    Everything in the exact same box he put them in when I put them back on his counter...

    "What do we have here?" he scowls. " I was able to find the actual steam pipe fittings I was looking for on Saturday".
    I replied. I hand him my credit card.

    He says nothing from there on.....except to tell me that the transaction was cancelled.

    Serves him right,..........$8.29 a foot for steel plumbing pipe......hope he chokes on them.:banana:
     
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  15. NIKwoaC

    NIKwoaC 中國製造

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    LOL!

    Welcome to McMaster, BTW. I love that site. I only wish they would offer some of their stuff in smaller quantities. I had to buy 100 bolt caps for a project at work where I only needed 6, and then found out they weren't going to work anyway. Oh well.
     
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  16. madmike1157

    madmike1157 the humor is still lost on me
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    Well,..had I had to rely on McMaster to supply those fittings,..I'd be out three times as much as the purchase made here locally. (It does pay to live in a city founded on the cast iron industry,......in the south)

    I did say "in the south". Having lived in the mid west,....MOST people are definitely more friendly, and helpful here if you're willing to stand around and talk w/ them about unrelated stuff.
     
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  17. 84Ttop

    84Ttop They make new pistons every day, so why worry?
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    Just sayin....... Next Project???
    tractor.jpg
     
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  18. A5literMan

    A5literMan Mustang Master

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    Now that would get the job done!
     
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  19. stangboy

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    That thing could probably cut a whole football field in about 5 minutes. lol
     
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  20. 95BlueStallion

    95BlueStallion Well-Known Member

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    Mike, you should have known better. Next time just send me the $80. Thanks.
     
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