Nascar
- Thread starter oh9mustang
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Glad to see the Mustang in NASCAR but was disappointed that the body lines were painted on to match the templates. I wish they would require cars bodies that actually looked like the cars we buy (like they used to do). Also, they should only allow them to run engines they actually sell in those vehicles(like they used to). So Ford Mustang would run a supercharged 5.4 (GT 500).
They currently run a 351W type engine; does Ford even sell that engine in any vehicles anymore?
They currently run a 351W type engine; does Ford even sell that engine in any vehicles anymore?
40th GT
New Member
The current style bodies can't reach 200+ mph anyway because of restrictor plates.
I understand your point though, but I'm sure they can mess with different front bumpers and splitters to make Mustang front ends suitable for high speeds.
It won't happen though because NASCAR loves their decals.
restrictor plates? they use those at 3 tracks. Any body style has to fall into a certain Drag limit in Nascars wind tunnel or they wont allow it. You will never see a Corvette in Nascar because the Aero is to good. Ford tried the old Cougar style but couldn't make the drag numbers low enough. After the car fall in the Drag number in the wind tunnel , it then has to meet the template specs. Nationwide series is a little easier because they don't use the car of tomorrow.
40th GT
New Member
I thought they're restricted at only Daytona and Talladega. Where else?
And only those two places are where they can break 200mph, hence the restriction.
Isn't the Mustang going to be a Nationwide-only car anyway?
IMO, if/when they do make the switch to Mustang, they should also use the Monte Carlo and the Challenger. (i.e. 2 door cars)
And only those two places are where they can break 200mph, hence the restriction.
Isn't the Mustang going to be a Nationwide-only car anyway?
IMO, if/when they do make the switch to Mustang, they should also use the Monte Carlo and the Challenger. (i.e. 2 door cars)
After the November 2008 race at Atlanta Nascar was thinking about Atlanta being a Restrictor plate track, Nascar even made some Atlanta plates and had teams test. I remember Walthrup holding up one and saying this is what they will be practicing with today. They were at Atlanta. I don't know if they did it or not.
Monte Carlo races Nascar, already.
Monte Carlo races Nascar, already.
40th GT
New Member
Now that would be lame if they go through with that.
Atlanta isn't even that fast of a track.
Wrong. NASCAR currently uses Impalas.
SpartaPerformance
10 Year Member
The first test with the engine in a Yates car was November 2008 at Rockingham. Yates has to be really careful in not making to much power, cause Nascar will not allow FORD to run away with any race like JJ has done. Nascar will just add spoiler angle or lift the front valance, The fans will never no the difference. Yates has to make just a little less hp than the GM cars and then each week sneak in a little more. Nascars fan base is GM products, Jeff, Jimmy, Dale, Mark all have a huge fan fallowing, and Fans are what pays the light bill. This engine has been around for a good while and dyno tested to death. There is nothing on the engine that comes from the 351 Cleveland.
Specs
Layout - 90-degree V8
Displacement - 358 cid (5.87L)
Valvetrain - 2 valves/cylinder, pushrod
Induction - Naturally aspirated, single 830 cfm carburetor
Bore Spacing - 4.500”
Camshaft Height - 6.150”
Main bearings - 5, plain
Camshaft bearings - 6, 60mm roller
Deck Height - 9.000”
Compression ratio - 12.0:1
Fuel - Gasoline
Block Material - Compacted Graphite Iron
Head Material - Aluminum
They have to be very careful with the HP, unless they wind up like the Boss 429. Nascar let Chrysler run the Hemi for a lot of years and when Ford introduced the Boss 429 Hemi Nascar didn't like it's home boys getting beat so bad, Nascar said no more Ford Hemis.
Specs
Layout - 90-degree V8
Displacement - 358 cid (5.87L)
Valvetrain - 2 valves/cylinder, pushrod
Induction - Naturally aspirated, single 830 cfm carburetor
Bore Spacing - 4.500”
Camshaft Height - 6.150”
Main bearings - 5, plain
Camshaft bearings - 6, 60mm roller
Deck Height - 9.000”
Compression ratio - 12.0:1
Fuel - Gasoline
Block Material - Compacted Graphite Iron
Head Material - Aluminum
They have to be very careful with the HP, unless they wind up like the Boss 429. Nascar let Chrysler run the Hemi for a lot of years and when Ford introduced the Boss 429 Hemi Nascar didn't like it's home boys getting beat so bad, Nascar said no more Ford Hemis.
other way around, they used a Windosr motor. go pick up the newest edition of Hot Rod, they show the FR9 motor and say numerous times it was a Windsor motor prior.
Casey4s
New Member
Nascar is all fake cars in my opinion, when I was a teen in the early 1960's Nascar racers used what was essentially showroom cars. It had to be a motor, body and chassis combination that the average guy could buy from the dealer. Now the nascar rides are purpose built one-of race cars NOT STOCK CARS in any way at all. You can not go to the showroom and purchase a Fusion with a 351 Cleveland running a carborator. There is nothing STOCK about Nascar anymore... too bad it was a lot more fun in the golden days when GM couldn't even compete with Ford-Mercury and Dodge-plymouth.
bdcardinal
First, Hot rod is owned by Peterson publishing which is owned by GM, so anything they say about Ford is doubtful. and then If you Know anything about a Windsor the specs are not even close to what I posted the specs for the FR9. Ford has used the Cleveland for as long as I can remember and no Windsor has ever been used. The FE block has been used, The 385 block has been used but no Windsor. The only thing in comon is the 90 degree block.
Casey4s
Your correct. I also remember those days. They are gone with the free ride. Now it's $$$$$$$$$$$$$ that’s all. I recall ABC wide world of Sports and Chris Economacky doing the Daytona 500 as the cars were coming down pit road at 200 mph. Times have changed.
First, Hot rod is owned by Peterson publishing which is owned by GM, so anything they say about Ford is doubtful. and then If you Know anything about a Windsor the specs are not even close to what I posted the specs for the FR9. Ford has used the Cleveland for as long as I can remember and no Windsor has ever been used. The FE block has been used, The 385 block has been used but no Windsor. The only thing in comon is the 90 degree block.
Casey4s
Your correct. I also remember those days. They are gone with the free ride. Now it's $$$$$$$$$$$$$ that’s all. I recall ABC wide world of Sports and Chris Economacky doing the Daytona 500 as the cars were coming down pit road at 200 mph. Times have changed.
just for reference, here is the pre FR9 block
Ford Racing Performance Parts [M-6010-R452*]
note it is a Windsor block, that is all.
Ford Racing Performance Parts [M-6010-R452*]
note it is a Windsor block, that is all.
That is a Ford racing crate engine. Do you really think you can buy a FR9 engine over the counter at Ford.
Here is a look at the FR9 engine. Don't look anything like a windsor.
Google Image Result for http://blogcdn.webridestv.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/09mtr1nk01727_01-1024x680.jpg
Maybe it's a Y-block.
Here is a look at the FR9 engine. Don't look anything like a windsor.
Google Image Result for http://blogcdn.webridestv.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/09mtr1nk01727_01-1024x680.jpg
Maybe it's a Y-block.
Here is a Cut-N-paste from Ford.
2009 Ford Racing NASCAR Engine
Basic Description
· The engine is an all-new, “clean sheet of paper” design.
· There are no carryover parts from the current engine.
· Then engine meets all of the new NASCAR engine rules, most notable being the 4.500” bore spacing (new for Ford since we’ve been running 4.380” since the mid-70s).
· It is a purpose-built racing engine. It does not retain any of the original production 351 dimensions, as the current engine does.
Design Process
· The engine design was evaluated on a system by system basis.
o Systems that are critical to performance were studied to identify optimums.
o We used a data-driven process meaning if the data didn’t exist to make an educated decision, We tested the part or system until we had the information we needed.
· Multiple engine design iterations were actually built and tested before the final design was chosen.
Engine Features
· Induction and exhaust systems are an evolution of our current ones providing increased performance potential.
· The cooling system is all-new resulting in more efficient cooling of the heads and block.
· The lubrication system is all-new which allows us to meter the oil supply to every part of the engine.
· The block and head structures are all-new resulting in stronger, lighter components.
Performance Metrics
· Power: The initial power has surpassed our expectations. For an all-new engine, very early in its development, the power has been excellent.
· Durability: There is still a lot of testing to be done, but after thousands of dyno miles, the durability has been perfect so far. Testing and Development
· Extensive dyno testing has been conducted since early ’08 – thousands of dyno miles have been logged including performance and durability testing.
· The first track test was in November at Rockingham. The engine ran fine without any issues.
Installation in the Cars
· The engine requires new engine mounts and changes to the chassis to accommodate the new mounts.
· We’ve worked with the race teams to identify all of the concerns and design issues. Everything has been sorted out to make the new engine work in the current cars.
Engine Introduction
2009 Ford Racing NASCAR Engine
Basic Description
· The engine is an all-new, “clean sheet of paper” design.
· There are no carryover parts from the current engine.
· Then engine meets all of the new NASCAR engine rules, most notable being the 4.500” bore spacing (new for Ford since we’ve been running 4.380” since the mid-70s).
· It is a purpose-built racing engine. It does not retain any of the original production 351 dimensions, as the current engine does.
Design Process
· The engine design was evaluated on a system by system basis.
o Systems that are critical to performance were studied to identify optimums.
o We used a data-driven process meaning if the data didn’t exist to make an educated decision, We tested the part or system until we had the information we needed.
· Multiple engine design iterations were actually built and tested before the final design was chosen.
Engine Features
· Induction and exhaust systems are an evolution of our current ones providing increased performance potential.
· The cooling system is all-new resulting in more efficient cooling of the heads and block.
· The lubrication system is all-new which allows us to meter the oil supply to every part of the engine.
· The block and head structures are all-new resulting in stronger, lighter components.
Performance Metrics
· Power: The initial power has surpassed our expectations. For an all-new engine, very early in its development, the power has been excellent.
· Durability: There is still a lot of testing to be done, but after thousands of dyno miles, the durability has been perfect so far. Testing and Development
· Extensive dyno testing has been conducted since early ’08 – thousands of dyno miles have been logged including performance and durability testing.
· The first track test was in November at Rockingham. The engine ran fine without any issues.
Installation in the Cars
· The engine requires new engine mounts and changes to the chassis to accommodate the new mounts.
· We’ve worked with the race teams to identify all of the concerns and design issues. Everything has been sorted out to make the new engine work in the current cars.
Engine Introduction
i wasnt commenting on the FR9 block, you obviously have no reading comprehension. i was commenting on the pre FR9 motor which IS a Windsor. Ford switched to the Windsor in 1991. NASCAR requires that you can purchase major engine components over the counter which includes blocks and unfinished heads. if you read the link you would have seen that was the block used in NASCAR.
sbreaux26
New Member
Awesome, I agree NASCAR is "fake" cars. It would be nice if they looked like the ones we could buy.
BD Cardinal
You be ugly with me again and I will have to talk about your mother.
"you obviously have no reading comprehension"
Because I missed "pre" in your post shirley doesn't mean I have NOOOO reading comprehension.
I’m thinking your reading Comprehension needs something, You said "if you read the link you would have seen that was the block used in NASCAR." The link doesn't say it was used in Nascar, It says " For professional competition (NASCAR) " Yates may or may not have used this block.
You may be right as to the block and or engine being a Windsor. I have always thought the motor was a Cleveland just because all the ones I have seen don't look anything like a Windsor, or a Cleveland, but they are closer to a Cleveland. Now I'm going to have to ask questions of my Nascar buddies. Thanks.
You be ugly with me again and I will have to talk about your mother.
"you obviously have no reading comprehension"
Because I missed "pre" in your post shirley doesn't mean I have NOOOO reading comprehension.
I’m thinking your reading Comprehension needs something, You said "if you read the link you would have seen that was the block used in NASCAR." The link doesn't say it was used in Nascar, It says " For professional competition (NASCAR) " Yates may or may not have used this block.
You may be right as to the block and or engine being a Windsor. I have always thought the motor was a Cleveland just because all the ones I have seen don't look anything like a Windsor, or a Cleveland, but they are closer to a Cleveland. Now I'm going to have to ask questions of my Nascar buddies. Thanks.
