Need A Little Help With T-5 Clutch/ Cable

[poboys 94]

Hi fellas..My 95 vert has clutch issues..
Car shifted nicely for 1 year. TO bearing went bad so I replaced it.
I also installed a new shifter, FWA and aluminum quadrant at the same time.
I started noticing that I had to adjust the cable more and more frequently
until I reached the maximum. The clutch wouldn't disengage so I brought a new cable
and it worked well until I started noticing the clutch pedal would bounce and vibrate.
I have had to adjust the crap out of this new cable as well. Today she left me
stranded down the street. Maxed out the adjustment and I even used some big washers
as spacers on the FWA side. This finally allowed me to muscle it into 2nd gear and limped home.
What could be causing these cables to fail and what could be causing the pedal to vibrate?
Any suggestions welcome.

Again for reference..New shifter. New TO bearing. New Cable 2 weeks old (non adjustable). New FWA and quad.

 

[jozsefsz]

Some aftermarket adjustable cables are just of poor quality (or so I've read). Are you running a higher pressure clutch? I went with a firewall adjuster instead of an adjustable cable, keeping the stronger OEM piece (with a good adjuster you don't really need both). Your pedal is probably vibrating as the TOB is bouncing off of the pressure plate 'fingers' when adjustment becomes loose (as it should be, leaving about a 1/8" air gap). You'll notice there's nothing at all pulling the clutch fork away from the pressure plate (the stock quadrant and 'self-adjuster' actually put the TOB in constant contact with the pressure plate which is why it wears out so quickly). After I installed an aftermarket quadrant, I also had a bit of vibration, and also chirping, until I installed a return spring to force the clutch fork & TOB towards the back of the car and to maintain the air-gap. If the vibration and / or chirping disappears when you gently put your foot on the clutch pedal, then you're having the same problem and I can describe what I installed.

 

[poboys 94]

Thanks for the reply..I have not been able to get under it again and inspect things any closer or be online as I have been sidelined dealing with a brown recluse bite..
Can't believe this crap..I'll be able to crawl under it tomorrow..I have been told to look at the TOB retainer for gouges that may prevent the TOB from sliding..

 

[poboys 94]

OK finally got a replacement cable also a replacement firewall adjuster from American Muscle..finally stopped raining and felt healthy enough to crawl my old ass underneath the car..All hooked up, feels great I can feel the tension on the pedal..I started it up in neutral..and..it still will not go into gear..what could be wrong? Clutch? Pressure plate? I had someone push the pedal down and I can see the TOB slide just fine..and since I only have 4 fingers on my right hand I can grab it through the dust cover opening and spin it..so it doesn't seem to be that..I really need this car road worthy as I'm wanting to move out west to AZ to better deal with heath issues in 3 weeks..Anyone's help and guidance would very much appreciated..Oh forgot to mention that when the car is in neutral, It goes into all the gears..so maybe not the trans?..Hope not..

 

[jozsefsz]

Just guessing at this point - the car goes into all the gears with the engine off I assume you mean? Then something's likely dragging up front. Maybe a toasted pilot bearing bringing the input shaft along for the ride? A pressure plate wrong for the application, or the clutch disk installed the wrong way? Just guesses again sorry. It could be an issue with the transmission but I still lean towards clutch.

If you start it up in gear, clutch pedal depressed, does the car try to jump, as if you haven't completely disengaged?

 

[poboys 94]

Hey man thanks for responding..Yep the car did indeed lurch forward when started in gear and clutch pedal in..I'm just waiting now for a new clutch kit from UPR to arrive any day now..I wish I would have inspected the clutch better when I changed the TOB last year..it was destroyed..had to dig pieces of it from the bottom of the bell housing etc..So this time I'm changing all myself and make sure it's done right..going to get a stocker flywheel too..not messing around with machining...Hoping the input shaft itself is good, and the pilot shaft too..I'm changing out all 4 springs as well while shes up on all 4s..a case of Redbull outta help..

 

[Noobz347]

I don't know what kind(s) of cables you are ending up with but none of the sources in any of your posts are sources that I know sells OEM style cables (stuff changes all the time so...).

Anyway: You need an OEM style cable. Maximum Motorsports sells these.

Any cable that is not OEM style, I toss right in the trash can next to campaign promises, ebay control arms, and turbonators.

 

[poboys 94]

I don't know what kind(s) of cables you are ending up with but none of the sources in any of your posts are sources that I know sells OEM style cables (stuff changes all the time so...).

Anyway: You need an OEM style cable. Maximum Motorsports sells these.

Any cable that is not OEM style, I toss right in the trash can next to campaign promises, ebay control arms, and turbonators.

Yep, I'm aware of the crap cable..I replaced the stocker when I changed to the FWA and quadrant..thinking that was the source of the original problem..no one had one in stock so went the Autozone route..car ran good till same crap symptoms happened..so I had them warranty their cable hoping that was indeed the problem but obviously it wasn't.. also had AM warranty their FWA because It had a bushing pressed into it that made me have to grind the plastic on the cable end down..f--g nitmare..anyways..still waiting for King Cobra kit from UPR..it's in Tennessee..I will definitely order a Ford cable after this, and see it they take back their Zone cable..I have read that the Steeda cable is the same as AZ..dont know how true that is tho..

 

[Noobz347]

Yep, I'm aware of the crap cable..I replaced the stocker when I changed to the FWA and quadrant..thinking that was the source of the original problem..no one had one in stock so went the Autozone route..car ran good till same crap symptoms happened..so I had them warranty their cable hoping that was indeed the problem but obviously it wasn't.. also had AM warranty their FWA because It had a bushing pressed into it that made me have to grind the plastic on the cable end down..f--g nitmare..anyways..still waiting for King Cobra kit from UPR..it's in Tennessee..I will definitely order a Ford cable after this, and see it they take back their Zone cable..I have read that the Steeda cable is the same as AZ..dont know how true that is tho..

Yeah, hard to say. After 30+ years of wrenching on these things, I would have bet that these a-hole cable manufacturers would have gotten the hint.

Attention all auto-parts vendors: If you are STILL selling/making/recommending clutch cables from Sum Ting Wong, you should get out of the damned business. Perhaps selling tampons at an all boy's school, would better fit your skill set.
/rant

Firewall adjusters are just as much of a crap shoot. You name the company, and it's a rip-off of another rip-off and was changed just enough to try and stay out of a court room. I've tried several and there really is no innovation in any of them. I prefer the ones that most resemble the OEM quadrant shape (round and even) for the street and cables shaped more like a nautilus for a track car. The rounder ones are easier to adjust for so that the adjustment sticks. The nautilus shaped release slowly at first and lift higher toward the end. Good luck with this piece as it's a personal preference sort of thing. Double hooks are gimmick.

Firewall adjusters: There is one company out there that has the rights to manufacture and sell the Fiore Micro-click (if they are still). Only FW adjuster that worth a crap IMO. Hopefully someone will come along with the company name (I can't recall who sells them now). UPR, AM, and everyone else are all a bunch of Johnny-Come-Latelys and couldn't tell a good firewall adjuster if it were hanging like a turd from their clenched butt cheeks. I'm pretty sure that UPR is one of the companies that ripped off this design (quick click, I think they call it).
/rant2

I still think maximum motorsport has the best "package" though I'm not a huge fan of the adjuster (it's kind of a pain in the ass) and the ramp of their quadrant (geared more toward racing).

If it were my choice to make today:

Fiore Micro-click (if someone is still making them)
Steeda Quick Release Quadrant (not sure why they call it that)
Maximum MotorSports Cable and guard

Good luck with it man. Such a simple thing made into a huge mess by companies trying to cheat other companies.

Oh... and there's always a hydraulic conversion.

 

[poboys 94]

Ok well I finally got the new clutch kit delivered and did the teardown of the old parts. I have looked over the old parts and don't really see too much going on here at the outset..I am posting pics of the parts in hopes you guys will chime in with opinions. You will notice a couple of shots that I took of the remnants of a ripped apart TOB that were lodged in between the steel spacer and the trans. Also notice the pilot bearing is all torn up as well. Dont know if I damaged that during the disassembly.. Looks like there is a piece of a race and a needle bearing came out out of it, I took a shot of that and another ball bearing from the old TOB..The old clutch disk looks like I could probably re-use? but I wont obviously. I am going to call around to see who if anyone can machine the flywheel or I'll order one from AZ for 60.00..The teardown went smooth with the exception of getting all my tools lined up in the back of my explorer (garage lol) and plugging in my air compressor to an outlet that wouldn't trip a breaker in this old house lol. You guys with garages should be thankful AF you have one lol!
Thanks for the replies and advice guys. Hoping to have the clutch and trans done by sundown today, then while shes up on all 4s, will do the springs..

 

[poboys 94]

A few more pics..I don't know what brand the old stuff is, I'll jot down the part#s and snoop on that later..I've decided to just go ahead and install a new flywheel for peace of mind...The TOB retainer looks ok..Questions...would it be wise to rub it down with some real fine 1000 grit sand paper? Should I put a dab of antisieze or wheel bearing grease on the input splines and input shaft nub (that goes inside the pilot bearing)? Do you guys think the pilot bearing is what caused the clutch to NOT disengage?

 

[poboys 94]

Yeah, hard to say. After 30+ years of wrenching on these things, I would have bet that these a-hole cable manufacturers would have gotten the hint.

Attention all auto-parts vendors: If you are STILL selling/making/recommending clutch cables from Sum Ting Wong, you should get out of the damned business. Perhaps selling tampons at an all boy's school, would better fit your skill set.
/rant
.

LMAO..funny chit man!

 

[jozsefsz]

My earlier theory ^ was that a problem with the pilot bearing could keep the input shaft locked to the flywheel and rotating, and give you the similar inability to get it into gear when running as a dragging clutch. It looks like there's quite a bit of reason to suspect that may have been the case, or at least part of it (a warped disk or pressure plate problems could give similar symptoms and after that TOB went ballistic who knows what was damaged). I usually put a dab of grease on the pilot myself - but just a little. I use the rest of the provided-with-the-clutch-kit-pack-of-grease primarily on the fork pivot and the bearing retainer where the TOB rides. Not much use for it on the splines as the splines are locked to the clutch disk which doesn't move all that much on them. You also risk fouling the clutch material as the grease slings off of the rotating input shaft.

You're replacing everything so there's every reason to be hopeful you won't have any more problems. I agree with the new flywheel purchase, I do that too if one is available. At $60 you get a fresh ring gear, full thickness of metal, and no waiting on the machine shop (which will cost close to as much $ anyways).

I don't think a pilot would be easy to wreck while disassembling by the way. Much more likely the trans was forced together (bolt tightening used to pull things together) while slightly out-of-alignment at re-assembly, at some point in its past. Or it just fell apart over time. Either way, you found something clearly broken, so the work you're doing has been fully justified. You'll like the KC clutch by the way, if you haven't owned one before. More clamping with a lighter spring feel, and holds a good amount of HP while being as streetable as the stock one.

 

[poboys 94]

Yes indeed you seemed to have been correct on that, once I saw that I was like wow a little 20.00 piece held the car hostage and caused all this work smh..But oh well, I did buy the car to "tinker" with..just not too much ..I'll be back at it today..sorta took a break yesterday and picked up the flywheel..and yeah the cost of removing it then machining vs removing and new no brainer imo..I had KC clutch in my 94 coupe..it had the Tremec 3550 in it..had it 7 years without any problems whatsoever..It handled HCI 373s. many passes down the 1320..You mentioned maybe the pilot was possibly damaged on re-assembly..I did RR this trans last time to change the old grenaded TOB..but that was like 8-9 months ago..I would think if I fubared it then she may have given up the ghost sooner?..IDK, but I'll be extra careful with re-assembly fo cure..Oh yeah I must remember to remove the AIR tube @ back of heads and get the plugs.no better time to access them like now!

 

[jozsefsz]

It is the PERFECT time to remove those tubes and plug the heads! If the pilot was ok when you removed it, and you took reasonable care re-installing, I'm sure it wasn't you who damaged it. They sometimes just go all on their own from wear. No need to be super-careful, if it slides together with just a little wiggling and twisting then it's fine. If you have to tighten the trans-to-bell bolts to force it together then it's probably a bad thing. I usually base my comments on the fact that many of our cars had previous owners, often young people with more enthusiasm than ability or cash.

 

[poboys 94]

I never removed the pilot the last time, just the trans..even left the bellhousing on last time when I changed out the TOB..I should of just went the whole way and inspected everything..but assumed new clutch so it wasnt necessary, plus we know the stories of the TOB and folks having to change them out..so I let it slide hoping all would be fine..big mistake obviously..Today I removed the old pilot bearing it was completely frozen..wouldn't budge even a little..I removed it without a puller/tool..I used 2 pieces of sandwich bread lol..