need help with setting a base tune

Discussion in '1994 - 1995 Specific Tech' started by fastgtfairlane, Dec 12, 2009.


  1. fastgtfairlane

    fastgtfairlane New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2006
    Messages:
    277
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Just got a tweecer rt set up on my car and want to start playing with tuning the car. If someone could give me some guidence on where to start it would be greatly appreciated. here are some specs of the car.

    94 gt
    t-5
    msd 6a
    stock head bottom end cam 5.0
    typhoon upper and lower
    custom cold air induction
    65mm tb no elbow
    stock maf 19lb injectors
    set the dizzy to 10 degrees
    equal lengths
    dr gas o/r x pipe
    spintech pro streets
    still running 3.08 gear

    I am getting more familiar with how to use the tweecer. I have been reading the manual and the tuning manual sticky on this forum for tweecer.

    i have changed the global spark adder up 4 to get 14degrees timing. the car smells very sweet, seems to run fair. I think there is more to be done in the tune. When running datalog im seeing 47 degrees timing after making my first tweec. I have turned off egr and thermocator functions, lowered fan temps, changed the tip in retard as well.

    does anyone have a tune i can load up for a similar combo? Help a fellow stang brother out. :flag:
  2. Hef5.0weisen

    Hef5.0weisen Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2004
    Messages:
    576
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Clovis, NM...worst place I've ever lived
    Have you tried to upload the Cobra file J4ji ? I did with mine, and am working from there....got rid of the detonation with no other changes. I suggest that, then go from there. I got one from the yahoo tweecer group, however it came with a virus that f'd up my other laptop, so I'll warn against grabbing that one....if you scroll down a few threads and look for mine titled "j4ji" another member supplied some good stuff....

    good luck
  3. LethalInjection

    LethalInjection Founding Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2002
    Messages:
    217
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    17
    Location:
    Arkansas
    I couldn't help but notice that he is running stock injectors. There is alot of stuff in the cobra tune geared around the 24lb'ers they have. One instance is injector offset vs batt voltage. They also have different MAF transfer functions etc. It can be made to work, but you have to keep in mind they are tuned for larger injectors and you have to address those areas of the tune to correspond to your injector size.
  4. LethalInjection

    LethalInjection Founding Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2002
    Messages:
    217
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    17
    Location:
    Arkansas

    Become a member of the eectuning dot org forum. There is alot to be learned over there as well as very helpful ppl. Also, there are lots of templates on tunexchange that you could use. I personally think it's best to leave the global adder at 0 and set tune the entire curve based on load and rpm. That way you get more or less timing where you need it, and not more or less where you don't. The blanket +4 across the board works decent for dizzy twistin if you don't have a tuner, but if you have the stuff to tune the software, then it's best in my opinion to use it to it's ability. I will help you the best I can, so if you have any questions, just ask. I will respond as soon as I get a chance. :flag:


    Les
  5. Hef5.0weisen

    Hef5.0weisen Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2004
    Messages:
    576
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Clovis, NM...worst place I've ever lived
    sure thing about the injector size....i put in an unmolested version on one switch position, then made some changes ie; changed the injector size and input the stock maf transfer on another switch position..ran smoother for sure. I;m sure there are some other changes to be made as far as mainkg it optimal, (any suggestions?) however I'm in the same boat as the OP as far as knowledge goes with these things. all part of the learning curve...trial and error not the most efficient way, but sure is fun.

    my car runs fine without the tweecer (back and forth to work), I'm toying around with and seeing how it all wroks prior to bolting on heads and such, don't want to get it together and have it not start/run properly due to insuffcient/off in left field "tweecs"
  6. final5-0

    final5-0 Mustang Master

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2003
    Messages:
    6,817
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    79
    Location:
    DFW Texas
    Don't have a tune for you :(

    I can share a thought or two with you :)

    Maybe it will help you get started or at least ask more Q's :shrug:

    Without a wideband you need to leave fuel adjustments at WOT as is

    Without a wideband you can tune just dandy for Closed Loop conditions
    by looking at the Lambse and Kamrf values :Word:

    but

    Lets focus on spark for now :D

    Not much is being accomplished over mechanical tuning by using the global
    spark adder ... or in other words ... Tweecer is giving you no advantage
    over dizzy twisting :eek:

    The beauty of pcm access is you can adjust spark like :banana:
    Total amount
    How quick you want the total amount
    At different load amounts
    At different rpm values
    and more

    You just don't get any of that with the global adder :nono:
    and
    At light loads ... you get values that are too high just like dizzy twisting :notnice:

    You can kill the spark tip in retard by matching its value with the value of
    your highest load row in your spark table thus taking it out of the pic ;)

    You will feel a noticable difference with the spark retard killed :nice:
    and
    If you raise the total amount and get it in quicker :)

    I would tell you you can only do so much in that area with OEM iron heads
    as their chambers just don't allow for as much spark as other heads but
    you can make a difference with small adjustments for sure

    Grady
  7. fastgtfairlane

    fastgtfairlane New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2006
    Messages:
    277
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I am a member of eectuning.org already. Grady, I tried to go on your website and it was down. Whats up with that? I read it a few months ago and wanted to go back to it and check it out for a few references. as for uploading a j4j1 tune, i do have 24lb injectors i can swap out at any time. I do also have a c&l 76mm meter with the 24lb injector sampling tube i would like to add as well. Does the j4j1 have a more aggressive spark advance than the t4mo?

    I am still confused on which tables to start altering on the spark advance. Like I said, I have been diving knee deep into some reading and research as much of this doesnt make that much sense to me yet. However, I am thoroughly enjoying playing with this system and I will have it figured out pretty well very soon as I play with it on a daily basis when I have time.

    I have already loaded a tune that makes it serge and cut up kinda bad so im gonna erase that tune and start over. One thing I do wanna get rid of is the sweet smell when the car is running.

    I want to be pretty good at this as I am building a fairly stout 306 to put in this car hopefully by spring. The heads will be done next week and the machinist will be starting on the short block.

    thanks again for everyones help. eectuning.org hasnt been much assistance atleast to me when i was trying to get the tweecer to work with vista. turns out i had a bad usb cable. we found that out with a comp guy at best buy.

    What are some parameters and tables to start altering to change up some things? also what is a good somewhat price friendly wideband?
  8. 2002BLGT

    2002BLGT Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2003
    Messages:
    3,068
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    59
    Location:
    Bedford VA
    If you put the C&L meter on stay with the 19lbs sample tube and adjust the injector slopes using the software , then adjust as needed but I would highly advise using a wideband with anything other than a stock MAF
  9. final5-0

    final5-0 Mustang Master

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2003
    Messages:
    6,817
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    79
    Location:
    DFW Texas
    About my old site :)

    It is all gone as Geo Cities hosted it and they went down the tubes :(

    I need to take out those links in my sig :shrug:

    If you go back 2 or 3 and even 4 years ago ........
    we used to talk some serious :crazy:
    in depth tuning on this site in tech and talk ;)

    As for the spark tables ..........

    I nulled out all of em but the base table
    and
    I did all my tuning with just that table :D

    Grady
  10. fastgtfairlane

    fastgtfairlane New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2006
    Messages:
    277
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    so you just altered the spark base table? What do all of the other spark tables do? Can you show me your spark tables on your car? I know they will be different from what my car will be but just to get an idea.

    Also what is a good wideband to get?
  11. LethalInjection

    LethalInjection Founding Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2002
    Messages:
    217
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    17
    Location:
    Arkansas
    What software are you using to tune it? I am only familiar with Binary Editor, so I wanna get an idea of what you're using because I'm not sure if some of the terms may be different.
  12. fastgtfairlane

    fastgtfairlane New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2006
    Messages:
    277
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I am using caledit 1.30a10 and calcon 1.0a9. Is BE and EA compatible with the tweecer rt? Also which is a good wideband to get?
  13. final5-0

    final5-0 Mustang Master

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2003
    Messages:
    6,817
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    79
    Location:
    DFW Texas
    A comparison between an unmodified j4j1 (cobra) and a spark curve I ran
    in hot Texas summers

    Winter time I usually go with 36 for a total amount

    You WILL NOT be able to run an aggressive curve such as this with
    unmodified iron E7's

    Grady

    [​IMG]
  14. BlackVert

    BlackVert Mustang Master

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2003
    Messages:
    5,627
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    78
    Location:
    Bethesda, MD
    is there something specific you are trying to address in the tune? do you have a drivability issue or something? that is a very mild setup that probably doesn't need much tweaking
  15. fastgtfairlane

    fastgtfairlane New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2006
    Messages:
    277
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    thanks for the timing table grady, I had my dizzy turned to 16 degrees through the summer on my e7s with no ping. I am much higher above sea level than you are here in nc with 93 octane.

    Black vert, I am not really having any driveability problems per say, I just want to start figuring out all of the scalars and tables and such, really trying to figure out what all of the values represent on the tweecer. I am in the process of building a pretty stout 306 setup and I want to have a fair knowledge of how to tune the car once the engine is put in place.
  16. fastgtfairlane

    fastgtfairlane New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2006
    Messages:
    277
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I took a picture of my base spark table. Opinions....

    Attached Files:

  17. final5-0

    final5-0 Mustang Master

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2003
    Messages:
    6,817
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    79
    Location:
    DFW Texas
    A few thoughts about how I got a basic grasp on how the pcm works :D

    1) You will teach yourself

    Build yourself a folder structure on your pc with folders such as Spark
    and subfolders such as tip in retard, borderline table, etc

    Then when you find info here or on the tuning forums you copy/paste to
    your pc folder notes

    No way :nono: can you remember what your read here and there

    That is how you build your knowledge base for now and you will come
    back over and over to your notes as you continue on with your efforts

    You tune with the knowledge you have now and as you learn more
    you find you are able to perfect some of your first tuning efforts ;)

    2) Use hard data to your benefit

    You need to understand about the sensors and how the pcm uses
    their input to make adjustments

    This is so easy as you have datalogging to tell you what is going on :nice:

    Lets use load as an example :D

    Your common sense would ask these kinds of Q's
    What driving conditions promote
    low load
    high load
    at low load what is spark/fuel doing
    at high load what is spark/fuel doing

    You build yourself a payload with of course ... load ... included
    I'd also want that payload to show
    Throttle position
    Open/Closed Loop
    RPM
    MPH
    Fuel
    Spark
    LAMBSE
    KAMRF
    Maf Voltage
    Pulse Width
    etc

    Now ... You are ready to datalog to see what is what :banana:

    You want to keep notes of each and every time you datalog and
    you want to capture to file with the notes referencing file name

    Trust me ... You will come back to these notes over and over as
    you progress on your self tuning quest :)

    Your notes describe stuff like ......
    Reason for test run
    Location of test run
    Driving conditions (2nd gear, 50% throttle, rpm range, etc)

    So ... you make like 30 second test runs capturing data
    and remember
    Our example is all about seeing how load differs with each test run

    fyi ... I like a short focused datalog as it keeps the file size down
    low and makes it more easy to analyze the data ;)

    I would find level ground with low traffic
    I would use an rpm range of say 2k to 4k
    I would use like 3rd gear

    Test run #1

    Get your pc all setup to capture data .....
    get rolling in 3rd gear at like 1000 rpm
    use like 5% throttle to pick up speed
    click on the dl at say 1500 rpm
    click off the dl at just above 4K rpm

    Write down file name and notes

    Test run #2

    It is important to have only ... ONLY ... 1 variable here :Word:
    therefore
    You wanna go back to the same location
    Use same gear
    Use same rpm range

    You know ... You wanna duplicate everything except ... one thing
    In our case ... That one thing is gonna be throttle position

    Do it again except this time use like 25% throttle

    Write down file name and notes

    Test run #3 at 50% throttle

    Test run #4 at 75% throttle

    Test run #5 at 100% throttle

    You go back home and analyze the data :banana:

    You can plainly see how throttle position changes load :spot:

    You can also see how the pcm slips from Closed Loop to Open Loop

    You can see a bunch of other stuff as well
    but
    I just wanted go give you my basic method of how .....

    I taught myself to see what that little silver box was doing :D

    Hope that helps in some kind of way :)

    Grady
  18. fastgtfairlane

    fastgtfairlane New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2006
    Messages:
    277
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    update. I have done some more research and lots of reading. Grady, thanks again for the tables. I did modify my base spark table to somewhat mimmick yours. It is starting make more sense to me. I think before some of the problem was caledit was not saving my modifications either.

    I altered the base spark table and changed the altitiude table to make it the same as the base table then added 2 degrees to the entire table. did the same with the mbt table as well. the car seems to pull much better now.

    I had to take the tweecer out of the car before i made this post originally and finally had a chance to put the ecu and such back into the car properly. so the ecu reset all of the fuel tables and everything. I did notice today after watching the datalogging while driving the car. the lambse 1 & 2 gauges on calcon were showing right at 13.6 13.8 at idle and cruise during CL on the digital setting. WOT was around 12.8ish. the kam setting was right at 1.0 for both banks. My understanding that is a lil rich correct? I know its not 100% accurate because the 02s are not wideband sensors. How off is that and what could be done to get the fuel mixture to be around 14.5ish during cl?
  19. 2002BLGT

    2002BLGT Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2003
    Messages:
    3,068
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    59
    Location:
    Bedford VA
    change your Fuel Open Loop Stabilized table from this

    [​IMG]

    to something similar to this

    [​IMG]

    and then report back your findings
  20. fastgtfairlane

    fastgtfairlane New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2006
    Messages:
    277
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    awesome good table for comparison. I noticed this is an open loop table. I didnt see one for closed loop. Will this table affect closed loop as well? Im gonna put make 2 tunes with one with those exact values and 1 with half the values and see how much it affects the afr.

Share This Page