Need Some Extra Help Guys

Discussion in 'Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech' started by 5pointohmustang, Nov 20, 2013.


  1. 5pointohmustang

    5pointohmustang Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2011
    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    7
    car always cuts off from cold start after about 10 minutes hot/cold days, under load, wot, just sitting idle it doesn't matter
    4 minutes later it will start and run normal with a small idle surge every couple of minutes

    The only unfamiliar codes:
    KOEO
    14 Ignition profile pickup (PIP)
    10 (a separator code I believe)

    all maintenance is recent including a new summit racing distributor

    hell today I cleaned the TB set factory timing and I even removed my cats in fear of a small clog still cut off after about 10 minutes... even if I cut it off before the 10 minutes it will start up normal and die on it's schedule

    I
    am
    lost

    any suggestions would be highly appreciated
    #1
  2. mikestang63

    mikestang63 Mustang Master

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2012
    Messages:
    3,803
    Showcase:
    20
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    1,049
    Trophy Points:
    144
    Think you found your problem... PIP module is bad. Very common failure. If you want to confirm, go to autozone and buy a NOID light, disconnect the #1 injector from the harness, plug in the noid light and fire it up. I'll bet the light doesn't flash indicating you are not getting signal to the injectors= bad PIP.

    You have two options. Get a new PIP module and replace it or, find an OEM replacement distributor from Rock Auto.
    #2
  3. 5pointohmustang

    5pointohmustang Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2011
    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    7
    everyone keeps telling me the PIP, that's why when it happened for the first time last month i bought a new distributor:
    http://www.summitracing.com/parts/su...view/make/ford and it's still happening...

    doesn't that distributor come with a new tfi and pip sensor??
    #3
  4. jcgafford

    jcgafford Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2012
    Messages:
    1,102
    Likes Received:
    99
    Trophy Points:
    59
    Location:
    Adrian, MI
    Aftermarket parts often add new headaches to a current problem. See if you can get your hands on a oem distributor. Rerun your codes too. there is no 10 code. I assume you have run key on and key off codes?
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
    #4
  5. 5pointohmustang

    5pointohmustang Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2011
    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    7
    we'll I dont think the new dizzy added OR subtracted to the issue, code 14 is the only problem ive ran both KOEO KOER,
    since the same issue happened with my original dizzy i dont think that is the problem
    #5
  6. jcgafford

    jcgafford Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2012
    Messages:
    1,102
    Likes Received:
    99
    Trophy Points:
    59
    Location:
    Adrian, MI
    yet you have code 14...
    #6
  7. mikestang63

    mikestang63 Mustang Master

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2012
    Messages:
    3,803
    Showcase:
    20
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    1,049
    Trophy Points:
    144
    Trust us> we speak from experience. Put a stock/oem distributor back in with a stock TFI and PIP. I'll bet you the problem goes away. Many people think aftermarket=better when in fact the stock Ford ignition is a very good system and can easily support 400hp.
    #7
  8. 5pointohmustang

    5pointohmustang Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2011
    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    7
    we'll that sux... I dont have the money for another distributor what are the odd's my OEM and summit dizzy both have a pip issue?
    #8
  9. Blown88GT

    Blown88GT Founding Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 1999
    Messages:
    634
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    19
    Location:
    Palm Beach Gardens, FL
    Ford no longer makes the distributors. I waited 3 months for one until the supplier contacted Ford directly & got the answer.
    [​IMG]
    #9
  10. jcgafford

    jcgafford Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2012
    Messages:
    1,102
    Likes Received:
    99
    Trophy Points:
    59
    Location:
    Adrian, MI
    pretty good, so onward from here. i had to find one out of a part out. the auto parts stores charge a core for them and have them rebuilt. which means somewhere out there there is a company that rebuilds them. look for a part out first and if not start looking for a rebuild shop. before i did anything i would phone a friend and have them pull their working dizzy and try it first. i bet its the problem, but its always nice to know for sure before you drop cash.


    here are a list of vehicles you may be able to pull one from:
    FORDCOUNTRY SQUIRE(1987 - 1991)
    FORDLTD(1984 - 1985)
    FORDLTD CROWN VICTORIA(1984 - 1991)
    FORDMUSTANG(1984 - 1993)
    FORDTHUNDERBIRD(1984 - 1988)
    LINCOLNCONTINENTAL(1984 - 1987)
    LINCOLNMARK VII(1984 - 1992)
    LINCOLNTOWN CAR(1984 - 1990)
    MERCURYCAPRI(1984 - 1986)
    MERCURYCOLONY PARK(1987 - 1991)
    MERCURYCOUGAR(1984 - 1988)
    MERCURYGRAND MARQUIS(1984 - 1991)
    MERCURYMARQUIS(1984 - 1985)
    this is from rockauto and is a cross reference on one of their rebuilds for your 87. i can't tell you if they all have steel or cast gears. good luck
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
    #10
  11. mikestang63

    mikestang63 Mustang Master

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2012
    Messages:
    3,803
    Showcase:
    20
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    1,049
    Trophy Points:
    144
    is yours a stick or auto? They have different TFI modules

    Rockauto sells a reman for abut $100

    AUTOLINE Part # D4095 SUPPLIED W/O CAP ADAPTOR, EXTERNAL MODULE MOUNTED ON DIST, W/STEEL GEAR. Reman
    FORD TYPE
    $97.79$50.00$147.79

    Or they sell them on Flea Bay

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/321251180351?lpid=82
    #11
  12. 5pointohmustang

    5pointohmustang Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2011
    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    7
    stick, it looks exactly like my oem
    #12
  13. liljoe07

    liljoe07 Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2009
    Messages:
    1,179
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    39
    Location:
    Cartersville,Ga
    I dont know why places list them as being different for the Transmission type for the Fox bodys. But there is no difference between the two. You have "Push Start" TFI's, and you have "Computer Controlled Dwell" TFI's. All Fox's use the Push Start. So the TFI is the same for either manual or Auto trans Fox bodys.
    #13
    Noobz347 likes this.
  14. Grabbin' Asphalt

    Grabbin' Asphalt Mustang Master

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2013
    Messages:
    1,940
    Showcase:
    25
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    277
    Trophy Points:
    94
    Location:
    Atlanta, Ga
    Got a ford reman from Napa not too long ago, around $100.

    ...so i thought from some reading about the TFI's, if you put a so called auto TFI on a manual you couldn't Push Start a manual from rolling it. No idea in any truth in that, just internet reading...Lol
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
    #14
  15. Blown88GT

    Blown88GT Founding Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 1999
    Messages:
    634
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    19
    Location:
    Palm Beach Gardens, FL
    I tried the reman route with a dizzy. They put the body in an etch tank to clean it. The mounting holes for the TFI were etched away, no threads left for the mounting screws. The Ford logo was barely visible. I never even got it off the bench. It pretty much tells you they do no testing at all. Virtually all remans are done by Cardone. There are some remans that will take your own dizzy & rebuilt it. It was cheaper to install a MSD Pro Billet.

    I still have my original & a core from the junkyard. Original got messed up trying to get the gear off & remove the shaft. Some models, it comes right out, others need a press.
    #15
  16. 5pointohmustang

    5pointohmustang Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2011
    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    7
    damn i guess i'll have to blow $100 on a reman in spite of hope, i wonder if i can return my summit dizzy don't think it's been 90 days
    #16
  17. liljoe07

    liljoe07 Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2009
    Messages:
    1,179
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    39
    Location:
    Cartersville,Ga
    Nah, it will still push start. Nothing in the wiring changes on the TFI between Auto or Manual. Only changes are between the Black and Gray TFI's. Black TFI's dont use the Start function to retard timing during crank. Its actually replaced with the IDM circuit. There are some other differences, but none really pertaining to this thread. There are very, very few vehicles that actually have a Black "push start" TFI. But all gray TFI's are "push start" as far as I know.
    #17
    Grabbin' Asphalt likes this.
  18. Blown88GT

    Blown88GT Founding Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 1999
    Messages:
    634
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    19
    Location:
    Palm Beach Gardens, FL
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2013
    #18
  19. 5pointohmustang

    5pointohmustang Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2011
    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    7


    so since it's a wiring issue i dont have to remove the tfi? i would see what the ohms are while running? lol it took me a hour to figure out how to set my tps
    #19
  20. liljoe07

    liljoe07 Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2009
    Messages:
    1,179
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    39
    Location:
    Cartersville,Ga
    Not while running. You should never ohm out a circuit thats live.
    #20

Share This Page