need some tuning advice

Discussion in 'Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech' started by irish, Aug 22, 2007.

  1. irish

    irish New Member

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    Well I've managed to about finish my car, it is a 1988 GT turned into a Saleen clone, it has a fresh t-5 and a fresh 306 and 3.73 gears. Engine has an e-cam, world windsor jr heads, kb hyper pistons, cobra upper/lower, 24 lb injectors and a 76 c&l calibrated for 24s, full msd ignition, fenderwell cai, aftrmarket roller rockers, ceramic shorties/h-pipe and magnaflows. Car has been converted to mass air with a factory mustang harness.
    I assume I need to tune this car via the A9P computer, the local tuner wants 250/hour 2 hour minimum plus you must buy a 300 dollar diablosport chip then pay dyno time on top, they said 1000-1200. I'm not a rich guy, what else can I do to get this car running really right? Bear in mind I have zero experience with car computers, I can build and program home computers, but I think that won't be all that helpful.
    thanks
    Matt
     
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  2. cenok is family

    cenok is family Active Member

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    holy cow, that's a ton of money. Powerhouse (http://powerhouseperformance.com), the place i take my car to for dyno/tuning charges 100$ for a couple dyno pulls and a simple tune. i guess if i were to get a chip burnt and have my ecu reprogrammed it'd cost a little more, but the price you got still seems a little steep, imo. do you have an adj. fuel pressure regulator? unless you absolutely want them to reprogram/burn a chip, just tell them to dyno it and set the a/f.
     
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  3. irish

    irish New Member

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    I knew I would forget something, car has professional products balancer/fuel rails and 6 an lines to an Aeromotive fpr. It is set at 39 vacumn disconnected/plugged currently and timing is 12 degrees spout out.
     
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  4. Fett

    Fett New Member

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    Honestly for the kind of money you are being quoted, I would buy a Tweecer and an Innovative LC-1 wide band o2, and learn how to tune yourself.

    The Tweecer has a fairly steep learning curve if you are new to it, but the basics are pretty easy and you learn as you go.

    Check out Tweecer.com and start reading to see if it is for you. I was completly ignorant to tuning (still am really), but I found it pretty simple to start off with. You install it, load your stock calibration, change your MAFS table, injector slope, and turn off your functions you are not using (EGR, thermactor), and that right there usually gets the car running nice and smooth. Then anything on top of that is gravy.
     
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  5. Fett

    Fett New Member

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    Oh yea...

    You figure a good laptop can be found on eBay for $200 or less, the Tweecer RT is $550, the LC-1 is $200. So for the same price as they are quoting you for a one-time chip, you can have your own tuning setup installed and you can make changes any time you want.
     
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  6. vristang

    vristang Advanced Member

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    7-800 seems to be the typical J3 tune cost.
    I'm not sure why these guys are so much higher....


    The tweecer is an option for you.

    Other DIY options include
    Moates.net gear
    Anderson PMS

    Any of the 3 will work very well for what you are doing...


    jason
     
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  7. irish

    irish New Member

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    How much would I leave on the table if I had a dyno run or two to set the a/f decently, and left it at that?
     
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  8. Fett

    Fett New Member

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    A basic tune will get you running smoothly and should optimize your specific setup. The only real problem with paying someone to dyno tune your car is that if you change anything in the future, you need to have the process done over again.

    That is why I personally chose the Tweecer, I honestly don't care how much HP I have. I just want my car to run solid. I wanted no driveability issues, I wanted a smooth idle, and I wanted the car to run solid at the track and run a good A/F mixture. Plus with my "junkyard and eBay" setup, I am constantly changing things. I knew I was going to play with my timing, and I knew I was going to eventually add nitrous. So I went with the Tweecer because I didn't want to have to bring my car to a tuner every time I changed something. Especially knowing I was going to mess with my timing at the track, depending on the weather and how the car was running. When you have a burned chip, you can play with things...but you will be going against the specific tune. With the capability of tuning myself, at the track, and monitoring how my car is running, the Tweecer was the right choice for me.

    If your car is pretty much done, performance wise, then go get a tune and leave it at that. If you plan on running nitrous, you can have a flip-chip so you can have two custom tunes, one for the street/track and another for the nitrous. Which is also another advantage of the Tweecer, you can load in and modify up to 4 different tunes and switch back and forth between them at any time.

    It's not for everybody, like I said I am constantly screwing with my car...so being able to do my own tuning is easier for me. But if you are pretty much done with your setup, go get a custom dyno tune and you will be very happy.

    I would still find a different tuner though, those prices you were quoted are pretty high.
     
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  9. cenok is family

    cenok is family Active Member

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    usually about 100 bucks will get you a couple dyno pulls and a basic tune. but like fett said, find a different tuner, those quotes are pretty steep
     
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  10. vristang

    vristang Advanced Member

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    Some clarification may be needed...

    By 'Basic Tune' we are discussing a fuel pressure and ignition timing tune-up, correct?

    Just want to make sure we're all on the same page with this...



    If the J3 tune was done right, you wouldn't have the problems you're describing.
    Since the shop in not willing to modify the tune to correct the issues, you may want to find another shop.
    Or,
    Maybe contact SCT directly and let them know what kind of problems you're having? Perhaps SCT will be able to convince the shop that more work is needed on the tune?


    more randomness,
    jason
     
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  11. cenok is family

    cenok is family Active Member

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    hah yeah thats what i mean by 'basic tune'. pretty much a couple dyno pulls and some fiddling. lol
     
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  12. irish

    irish New Member

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    Just to clear things up a little, my car runs well, idle is a bit unsteady but not awful, its quick but I am wondering how much performance I am missing by not having the comuputer work done. I can afford a couple dyno pulls and an a/f adjustment, thats under 200, but I have not found a reasonable alternative to mess with the computer, how much power (I know lousy question) am I missing if I don't tweak the computer??
     
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  13. vristang

    vristang Advanced Member

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    The hp question is nearly impossible to answer...
    Too many variables...
    Not only does it involve the aftermarket parts installed, but also
    how those parts will interact with eachother,
    AND
    How aggressive the tuner is with timing and fuel.


    The idle issue will completely go away.
    You could gain some power, but it is hard to say.


    My opinion on the 'quick/dirty dyno a/f tunes' is... don't bother.
    About all they will do, that you can't do yourself, is give you hp numbers.

    If they push your afr away from stoich in order to gain hp, then you will lose that new power as the ecu applies the Adaptive Strategy.
    The ecu is always correcting the afr back to stoich.


    jason
     
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