new heads:new edelbrocks, AFR165 or Trick Flow?

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HairyCanary said:
Heck, if all you want is a lot of flow, then you can get heads that flow a *lot* more than any of the ones on that chart. Why not pick up a set of blue thunder heads and put them on your 302? :rolleyes:

Flowbenches and dynos don't make very good times at the track... not aerodynamic enough...

Dave
Dave, I was actually in the middle of typing something along the lines of what you said, but with a little more sarcasm. I could find out where John Force finds his heads and we could make them fit on a 302 :rolleyes:.

When talking about the stock shortblock, TFS is a good head, but AFR is better, point-blank-period

Joe
 
Every time theres a AFR/TFS/Edelbrock thread all the AFR dick lickers come out and ruin the thread saying how they are the best no matter what because they are the most expensive and blah blah all the same 'Kiss Me''Kiss Me''Kiss Me''Kiss Me'. If you want any real info then just do a search.
 
stangin it said:
Every time theres a AFR/TFS/Edelbrock thread all the AFR dick lickers come out and ruin the thread saying how they are the best no matter what because they are the most expensive and blah blah all the same 'Kiss Me''Kiss Me''Kiss Me''Kiss Me'. If you want any real info then just do a search.

I don't remember saying AFR's are the best head :shrug:

Later
Grady
 
stangin it said:
Every time theres a AFR/TFS/Edelbrock thread all the AFR dick lickers come out and ruin the thread saying how they are the best no matter what because they are the most expensive and blah blah all the same 'Kiss Me''Kiss Me''Kiss Me''Kiss Me'. If you want any real info then just do a search.
No need to make personal attacks or start calling names. If you disagree, by all means say so. Even better, back it up with cold hard facts. But if all you can do is call people who use AFR heads "dick lickers", then kindly keep your comments to yourself.

Dave
 
I think they're mad because AFR's are the BEST choice for a stock shortblock 302 :shrug:. Why people attack people based on their opinion and facts is beyond me. In FFW and NMRA, there are no TFS headed champions. There are AFR headed cars winning though. Weird huh....

PS, I'm partial to Edelbrock :D.

Joe
 
Joes95GT said:
I think they're mad because AFR's are the BEST choice for a stock shortblock 302 :shrug:. Why people attack people based on their opinion and facts is beyond me. In FFW and NMRA, there are no TFS headed champions. There are AFR headed cars winning though. Weird huh....
I think the AFR's are excellent performers, as is obvious by my choice :D. I'm not sure why it makes me a target though, or invalidates my opinion. I did a fair amount of research before selecting what head to go with, that's all ... :shrug:

PS, I'm partial to Edelbrock :D.
I can see that :D. Nothin' wrong with Edelbrock! They make excellent products, and I've never been disappointed with their quality. Although that one bolt on the inside of the Performer intake is a real PITA...

Dave
 
Its not having AFR's that makes you a target. Im just sick of hearing AFR over and over everytime any discussion about heads comes up they are automaticly the answer to everything. What happens if someone doesnt wanna spend $1300 on just heads Remember with Edelbrock heads (60379) they are pedestal mount and you dont need longer pushrods. They are a few hundred dollars cheaper when its all said and done because they dont need all that extra stuff. So for someone that doesnt wanna spend $1500 + its a good choice. Unfair comparisons are made everyday..... AFR/FTI/RPM combo is always being compared to Edelbrock heads/Compcam/cobra intake or TFS heads/ TFS 1 cam/ cobra intake. Just make fair comparisons. Its basicly a 10rwhp difference its not huge. Dyno graphs say alot more then peak #'s. I dont race at the track every weekend and try to pull every last bit out of my car. I just chill and do some street 'Kiss Me''Kiss Me''Kiss Me''Kiss Me' once in a while i have better things to worry about then every last tenth of a second. Most of the time with similar mods it comes down to driving skill.
 
stangin it said:
Its not having AFR's that makes you a target. Im just sick of hearing AFR over and over everytime any discussion about heads comes up they are automaticly the answer to everything. What happens if someone doesnt wanna spend $1300 on just heads Remember with Edelbrock heads (60379) they are pedestal mount and you dont need longer pushrods. They are a few hundred dollars cheaper when its all said and done because they dont need all that extra stuff. So for someone that doesnt wanna spend $1500 + its a good choice. Unfair comparisons are made everyday..... AFR/FTI/RPM combo is always being compared to Edelbrock heads/Compcam/cobra intake or TFS heads/ TFS 1 cam/ cobra intake. Just make fair comparisons. Its basicly a 10rwhp difference its not huge. Dyno graphs say alot more then peak #'s. I dont race at the track every weekend and try to pull every last bit out of my car. I just chill and do some street 'Kiss Me''Kiss Me''Kiss Me''Kiss Me' once in a while i have better things to worry about then every last tenth of a second. Most of the time with similar mods it comes down to driving skill.

Ditto! As much as I like spending more money than necessary, I really don't :rollseyes::rollseyes::rollseyes::rollseyes::rollseyes::rollseyes::rollseyes::rollseyes::rollseyes:

Man, we need some dyno charts in this thread. If all I am going to lose is a few hp, and save $300, then I can use the money to somehow get all the power to the damn wheels!

But comparing a AFR/FTI/Edelbrock dyno chart to a TFS/TFS/Cobra combo is a extremely bad idea. I wish I had the extra money to spend on custom ground cams and expensive intake/heads. Alas, I don't. :sigh:

Time to start playing the lottery :rlaugh:

HairyCanary said:
Flowbenches and dynos don't make very good times at the track... not aerodynamic enough...

Very funny. Too bad you don't see the irony in your statement.....:nonono:

:flame::flame::flame::flame::flame::flame::flame: WAHOO!!!!
Scott
 
Thanks for all the info guys! Unfortunately, I´m more confused now...Maybe the new eddys are more troublefree and flow as good as the AFR165. Still waiting for new dyno numbers.
 
This stuff never ends!!! All in all, your three choices are all great ones. I did a LOT of research and my choice ended up being AFR's, and its a decision I have not regretted. Of your three choices, the AFR and new edelbrocks are my favorites. The edelbrocks are fairly new and I haven't seen many combos with them, but from what little I've seen they are a head that I think we'll see great things from. It is hard to beat the price of TW's though. In my opinion, the AFR's are still the best out of the box SB head avail, I do wish AFR would price them a little more competatively. I lucked out and got mine for $1175 brand new. I have the 60cc pedestal mount versions.
 
Ehh, dude, no offense for your wayyyy wrong. Afr's are NOT the best and TFS would NOT make the least low end tq. Do a search for my sn and I posted my dyno with my tfs/fti set up. Its not 100% tuned, but its much better with the chip. Makes about 300ft/lbs @ 3k and about 280ft/lbs @ 2700. Post your graph, lets compare low end. I'm not posting to say tfs is the best, im saying its all about the entire combo and how well thought out it is. All 3 heads mentioned are great and will work just as good and you wouldnt notice much if any differenc ebetween the 3 if you switched out the heads on your car for each of them. I'm just tired of reading all these afr dick-licking threads like their the ONLY way to go fast.

"Here we go again......"
Well said MIke

No offense, but we arent dyno racing. I think you should call a real engine builder (WHO SELLS/WORKS EACH TYPE OF HEAD) and ask them whats the best head to put on a 302? Im sure we all know what the answer is gonna be. Lets compare track times instead of dynos? I went 109.99 with a set of box stock gt40x heads, and a B cam. What did you run with the mighty tfs heads? I mean you do make 300 ft/bs by 3k rpms, im sure i wasnt even close to that.

Every time theres a AFR/TFS/Edelbrock thread all the AFR dick lickers come out and ruin the thread saying how they are the best no matter what because they are the most expensive and blah blah all the same 'Kiss Me''Kiss Me''Kiss Me''Kiss Me'. If you want any real info then just do a search.

Who says they are the best because they are the most expensive? Thats just hilarious. :rlaugh:
 
Ok then comes me...new to the sn95 world. BUT I still have my fox!!! ANy ways I saw that you guys said that you need longer pushrods for the AFR?Hmm, Ive never heard this, I thought they were just a bolt on. I am going to get the AFR 165's for sure, Ive had a set of 6037 eddys and I liked them but some how a valve got bent... So the reason I come here is I have no idea what you guys are talking about when you say FTI, what is that?Sorry it seams dumb but. Now I also see that you guys say that you just cant plug any ole' roller cam in the sn95's. So what can I do? I plan on running my turbo set up on this car and I kinda wanted to just put aftermarket heads and intake on and leave everything else alone(cam, shortblock mainly).I just dont want to blow money in the wrong direction. I want to do it once...
thanks dudes...


AFR ROCKS! HA!
 
Brad, FTI stands for Flow Tech Induction which is Ed Curtis's shop. http://www.flowtechinduction.com Not everyone needs longer pushrods with AFR's, I did but I have pedestal mount heads and needed them for proper geometry. The problem with cams in 94-95 cars is that our EEC's do not like most cams. A general rule of thumb most use is to stick with a cam with a LSA greater than or equal to 114* and you should be fine. SOme get away with LSA's lower than that, but most don't. What happens is our cars develope a "surge and die" syndrome where they can not find and hold an idle. My custom cam has a low LSA and I needed an eec tuner to correct this issue, all it took was a bump in idle speed to 850rpms.
 
There are so many factors that determine track times. Traction, weight, driver skill, elevation, mods, it goes on and on. Therefore it is somewhat difficult to look at just a track time in a forum member's sig and form a concrete opinion. For example, HairyCanary was running something like a 13.4 with AFR 165's, yet HRT11 apparently ran a 12.5 with the Edelbrocks. But they have different mods and seperate driving skills, so it's probably not a fair comparison.

Here's what I think. Like what has already been said, all 3 heads that are being mentioned are great choices. The TrickFlows can make great power and are priced affordably. The Edelbrocks are also priced affordably and the newer version flows very impressivly. The AFR's are more expensive...BUT more often than not, the AFR/FTI combos seem to continually outperform while the others kind of stand in the shadows with an occasional standout. Case in point, KillerCanary ran a 12.31 in his heavy SN95 convertible. I don't think I've seen any Edelbrock or TrickFlow combo do that. However, I'm sure a well-built combo using either of those heads could come fairly close. I'm willing to bet that Ed could take a car that swapped to each of those 3 heads and grind a cam for each one that would put it reasonably close to the others. I highly doubt he's able to take an AFR headed car, grind a cam, and extract a magical 50 rwhp over the same car with Edelbrock heads. Peak power, powerband, and area under the curve are determined not only by the head, but the cam design as well. As a side note, I've seen several AFR/FTI combos with what look like low peak numbers outperform TF combos boasting a higher RWHP number.

It really does boil down to how well the combo is matched together as well as how much you want to spend, and stangin it did bring up an excellent point: if someone is on a tighter budget or doesn't have to have "the best," if he chooses to give up a couple tenths at the track and save $500+ dollars by not going with AFR's and an FTI cam, who can really say he made a bad decision? Only the guys who strive for every last tenth where cost isn't an issue.

All 3 are great heads. My personal choice would be AFR, but if I found a set of the new Eddy's for a good deal I'd jump all over them.
 
Like just said above...It's the WHOLE combo, not one item that makes the difference...Ironically, the Real Street car that Ed C. (FTI owner/AFR guru), built and drove used Trick Flow heads.. :shrug:
disclaimer: I KNOW he drove the TFS headed car...I "read" that he also built the engine...If that is incorrect, so be it...

I run the new Edelbrocks (60379), and am very happy with them. All 3 choices each have their strong points and not so strong points, IMO. Obviously, anyone who runs one of the three, will tell you to use what they used...Simply put, I chose the Edelbrocks because they work, are high quality, and are a true bolt-on...not to mention they were less than a grand brand new using Summit's Price Match policy...;)
 
Rel3rd: What´s your combo? And what´s the driveability in low and mid rpm?
One of the reasons I´m inclined to the new eddys is because they´re helicoiled and the aluminum is supposed to be better (so I was told). Any truth on that? :confused:
 
In a nutshell...
Edelbrock 60379 heads, AFM B-21 cam, extrude honed Cobra intake...etc...

Here's my entire combo...I use a new PMS for tuning, and low/mid/upper rpm's are great. No comparison to the old POS FordChip I once had...

http://www.ezshots.com/members/ysbarney/

Don't know what you mean about the aluminum being "better"?? I know my old set of 6037's outlived the three different shortblocks they were used on...lol...

The 94 GT I have now, went 12.98@106 on regular radials, and through an AOD tranny. I've since swapped back in a 5 speed (to replace the aod), added a Bassani catted X pipe (replacing the MAC H pipe), 410 gears (instead of 373's), Morpheus Horsepower pipe (replacing the C&L), 315/35 BFG Drag Radials (replacing the stock 275/40's I had last time ran), 30# injectors and Pro-M 80mm meter (replacing 24's and a Bullet meter), X2C upper & lower control arms (replaced the stockers), and of course the PMS (replacing the FordChip)....I think it'll run a little better than it did...lol...I plan to dynotune it (myself) in the next two weeks. I'll be sure to post the results. ET's will have to wait until mid April, when I go to the SuperStallions of the Net Spring Nats at Cecil County Dragway in Maryland...:)