No More NPI =(

d98gt

d98gt

Founding Member
Mar 14, 2002
4,505
59
204
SE Texas
#1
She finally decided to let go on me and I actually thought it was going to be a simple fix:p

Just a short story to tell the problem:
On Tuesday (my birthday of all days) I was taking a friend to purchase Marks (Winters98gt) mustang. Just a few miles from Marks house, I was put in a situation where I had to pass a vehicle while on a 4 lane highway. I gave the car about 3/4 throttle and midway through the pass the car got loud and vibrated a bit so I immediately thought it was transmission. I put the car in neutral but the car still had the same problem and the car had LITTLE power. I was in the far left lane so I had to manage getting over 4 lanes of traffic on a busy road while constantly losing speed---no bueno :D

I had to cruise nearly a mile to exit 610 while the car was running HORRIBLE with very little power---struggled to even rev when in neutral. I got it off the road and parked in a lot to check the damage. Plugged the xcal2 in and a cam position sensor code popped up so I figured I was going to get lucky. The car wasn't able to crank so Mark showed up and was kind enough to allow me to get towed to his house under his AAA account to save me money. I brought the car there and removed the sensor from his/my friends new car and the car cranked but was still seriously low on power and the code popped up again--I figured the car was just in a serious limp mode.

After 2 tows later, I finally got it back to my area and today got to check the damage. I pulled the driver side valve cover just a few hours ago and it's not pretty:eek: The first thing I noticed was the chain was OFF of the gear so the first thing I asked the guys around me (since I wasn't exactly thinking) if I knocked it off when I hit it with the valve cover :rlaugh: A rocker was also off so I pretty much knew it wasn't good then. I tugged on the chain and it was BROKE---straight up snapped:jaw: The reason the car was sounding so bad and so low on power (which I am surprised it even cranked) was the car was only running on the passenger side :)

So here I am with a NPI with bent valves and pistons that aren't the best looking I imagine :)

It's now time to hunt down a lower mileaged motor and swap it in. I'll be doing some research on pulling the motor tonight and hope to begin during this weekend. Gotta find me a PI motor now or a 5.4---though has to be CHEAP:notnice:

I will post pictures of the carnage tomorrow:SNSign:
 

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#4
Makes me wonder why I didn't do it correctly and put on new chains, though I think there was something else wrong. I guess I can't complain being that this engine lasted over 200k miles on spray and a consistant 13 second car. It'll be back up even better so im not too terribly worried, however the thing that worries me is that I am on a time limit and everyone knows that things don't go exactly as planned when it comes to working on these cars.

I'll actually be putting my PI cams in Winters (Marks) old car, which will help with the PI intake that the car has on it along with some other misc mods that I had.
 
#5
COramprat said:
The chain broke? Wow...never had one of those before. Good luck on getting her back on the road.
Click to expand...

Surprised me aswell:D I honestly didn't think it was a huge problem being that the car was still operating and I managed to drive it off the road. I thought I was going to get lucky with it :)

Something put entirely too much tension on the chain as it's a pretty clean break. I wasn't spinning outrageous RPMs by any means but it's all good.
 
#6
Oh crap! Wow that is a first....but im glad you werent totally stranded!

Yep, time to make it better and faster :D Sucks this had to happen, but hey it could always be worse.

You can pick up PI motors DIRT cheap....heck I would look into a 32V engine from like a mark 8 or something. I think all you would need is a flywheel and maybe splice a few wires.
Otherwise the PI engine will be the best bet :D
 
#7
Wow, man. That's really harsh. I hope your injured car the best. Did the timing area sound clacky before? Like thousands of miles before? I hear it's best to replace the tentioners/guides at like 130-150k miles as they wear - that's possible what happened. A tensioner or guide fouled running the chain off the spocket, being caught up with other stuff and breaking. Cuz rarely if ever will the break under any other circumstance.
 
#8
It seems that since I am in need of the motor--I can't find the killer deals I was finding just a few weeks ago, gotta love how that is how it works usually:rlaugh:

I've sent a few messages out to a few friends with some shops asking if they have any pi motors laying around or know anyone that has anything that I can slam in it. I'd be happy with a pi 4.6 or a dohc from a mark8 though the search needs to come up quick. It has to mate up with my 4r70w though I won't have any problems with that. I would just like to have the car up in 3 weeks which might be stressing it if I don't find something to install soon:lol:

I'm willing to drive a decent distance to get a motor that isn't needing a complete rebuild but that is a risk that I take with buying used engines:notnice:

As for timing noise---there was none. I installed PI cams not very long ago and the chains looked great (as did the rest of the motor). I honestly don't think it was due to my pi cams or the installation of them, I just feel it was time for it to be put to rest. 220k+ miles and 300+ passes at HRP and HMP :flag:
 
#9
Maddox, let me know if I can be any use. I feel horrible that this happened on the way over and your bday. Eitherway, at least you can upgrade and get the car where it needs to be.

a couple options

1. Get a shortblock, PI or NPI, get some cheap PI heads, and you have the rest of the parts besides gaskets etc.

2. Get a used PI longblock.

You know I know the ins and outs of the salvage business in the area. Ill start looking tonight and see what we can come up with.
 
#10
I talked to Les at QMS (the guy that does the gear install for $150 and so on) and he has a 5.4 with 30k at his shop. Wants $1500 for it however i'm not exactly wanting to spend that at the moment. I want to check some "local" places for a pi 4.6 or a dohc 4.6 that is under $1000. The only good thing about the car is that it's ready to go faster than what the little NPI was capable of throwing at it :D The transmission and rear end was just begging for more power but the car wasn't exactly a beast--just held it's own at 13.7s-13.8s :rlaugh:

I want to test all of my options and measure the benefits vs cost. I leave for Huntsville in a few weeks and I would love to bring the car with me instead of it just sitting up.
 
#11
I looked through the databases and didnt find anything listed close for a good price. 1500 isnt that high, but the 5.4 isnt really worth a lot more than the 4.6.

I did find quite a few npi longblocks at around 500-700 bucks. You could always get another npi motor, put the pi parts on and add a set of LT's while the car is apart. MY PI heads are still sitting at westside machine, you can have them if you want.

Also, the best advice I would give is to just go look if you have transportation and a ride. The place with the most salvage yards in houston is off of North Shepard, between 610 north and I45. Look at a map and you will see where Im talking about. There are litterly 30 salvage yards in a row, then some more on other streets just east of I45 in the same area. Most of their parts are not listed. I went by tons of NPI, and a couple PI motors in there about 6 months ago. Good luck, let me know if I can help.
 
#12
The only thing about the 5.4 is it's in the 30k mile range which my mustang hadn't seen that since late 98 :rlaugh: I know the history on the motor, which buying from a junkyard is hit or miss. I'd prefer to hit on my first try and not end up like Stephen and the camaro.

I can likely get him down to $1200 or so for the 5.4 though im not committing to anything as of yet. I have to check all my options before I take the hit on the funds. I will be doing the install myself being that I have a friend that has a lift and a empty garage to do so at.
 
#14
Sorry to hear about that mustang50--surely you are getting another?

that's one reason im not hurting too bad over this, I will still have "my" car when it's all said and done. Sure, the car looks absolutely horrible though being that it has been here since new, not wanting to get rid of it :rlaugh:
 
#15
I slipped up and forgot the camera at the house today and didn't realize it until I was at the car working. Today I began to pull the head and let me tell you---PITA!!! haha

I'm actually unsure as to how close I am to getting it off, but I know I have a bit more work to do. So far the cam is out along with the 10 bolts that are there. I will remove the intake manifold tomorrow and then begin working on removing the exhaust manifold (I imagine this won't be too fun). I would love to find an article/writeup of the heads being removed, so if anyone knows of one--please send it my way :)

Once I get this head off--I can see what kind of damage we are looking at. It could be as simple as using my engine and just replacing the heads (which I am hoping for) being that it'd be a cheaper route and only an excuse to go pi heads. If only Mark will give me the hookup ;)

Just a random note for anyone that plans on working with this on their own car---wear gloves or some type of protection :rlaugh: I am looking rough!!
 
#17
Alright..so the damage wasn't pretty but atleast it was expected :) Now that I have done it..I don't believe pulling the heads would take me very long if I had to do the process again. It was just lots of small things that I kept getting held up on, though did finally get it tore down. Exhaust valves were the ones that caused all the havok but it'll all be replaced with the new heads. The pistons took some damage so they will also be replaced though I do believe the ones that I am eyeing on ebay are pi pistons which won't bump the compression (no big deal) so I will basically turn my npi block into a pi motor with the pi piston, pi heads, pi cams and intake. I am going to pull the motor out and put it on a stand so that the process will go much easier. I'm going to rebuild it while it's out and purchase new items such as a oil pump being that it would be stupid not to do so since the car had 200+ miles on it :D

I managed to take some photos today which look terrible since the parts have been sitting in coolant and have rusted a bit, though will give an idea of the damage. I also took a photo of the broken chain. I will post these in the next reply to avoid making this post extremely large.
 
#20
Believe it or not--the engine tested good while doing the cam swap with good compression numbers (and of course they were all close). My timing chains just ended up not liking the amount of miles and caused some havok :)

I don't mind the labor as I am using it as a learning experience so what better way than to do it myself? ;) I already have the money set aside for the heads since they were in the machine shop, so I will continue with the plan that I currently have. A complete pi engine would be nice, however with the way the funds are at the moment--I am actually attempting this on a "budget" but we all know how that usually turns out :rlaugh: The car ran 13.7s with the npi heads and npi intake so just those mods alone will help out.

I wish I did have the money to do the swap "right" but I want the car up asap as I plan on using it towards the end of September.
 
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