No Power, pops out back, runs hot, and Pi$$ me off

Discussion in 'Classic Mustang Specific Tech' started by mustangman1974, Jul 26, 2008.

  1. 69gmachine

    69gmachine Member

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    Do you by any chance have an automatic? If yes, it could be that it is slipping and overheating the trans fluid, which is in turn rejecting the heat into the radiator. If this is the case, there is nothing you can do to the engine to get it to run cool enough.
     
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  2. TOM B

    TOM B New Member

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    This comment is just stupid, no wander you guys sit along the road.:rlaugh:
     
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  3. mustangman1974

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    I re jetted or rodded the carb about a month ago to try to keep the temps down. I talked to a someone who races dirt ovals and they suggested to put bigger needle and seats. Something about the new gas in california and vapor locking. Thats my next attempt. Gona try it friday. I will cost nothing considering I already have the strip kit with them in it.

    Oh by the way I added thermo wrap, the velcro kind and it seemed to stave off the sputters a bit longer, but still eventually happened. just ran at 200 a bit longer before it happened and wasn;t as bad.
     
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  4. oz

    oz
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    I'm not sure what's so stupid about it? An occasional spike to 210 - or even 220 - isn't going to do any harm. As long as you don't see steam coming out of the radiator, the fluid is still in a liquid form and is therefore capable of properly conducting heat.
    There is still a significant problem with a setup that runs over 200 with a 160 thermostat (or even a 180) installed. The problem is one of two things - either improper flow (pump, thermostat, head gasket issue, plugged radiator) or improper heat transfer (plugged radiator, fan issue).
    This being said, I personally think that any engine worth anything should continue to run properly when the temperature reaches 210. 220 is pushing it but 210 for sure. Again, if the car runs 210 all the time - even though you are running a 160 or 180 thermostat indicates a problem. I stand by my statement that THE CAR IS NOT OVERHEATED AT 210!

    Mustangman1974,
    Did you hook up the wideband since you rejetted the carb? The 17:1's you got before are very bad. Make sure you have proper fuel pressure and AF ratio before proceeding. 17:1 can cause nasty detonation... which causes extreme cylinder temperatures... which causes the water to get real hot.
     
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  5. hunterhicks

    hunterhicks Member

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    Not sure if you have access, but if you have another carb, might want to pop that on to see if there is a large difference. Maybe a friend's carb? That'll tell you if it's a carb problem, quickly.

    I had lots of problems under load- I went for the timing/carb first- it turned out to be either the plugs, wires, cap, or rotor. Changed all of them at once on a complete whim, and bam, fixed. Went from a almost unusable car to perfect.

    I hate these problems that we work so hard to fix, and they don't go away- I've started taking the 'bazooka' approach- replace whole systems (carb, ignition) to quickly see if the problem is contained within.
     
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  6. mustangman1974

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    yeah tonight I stopped at ace hardware so I can run a fuel pressure guage inside my car. I want to eliminate a fuel delivery problem first. It never fails it will start acting like a fool in traffic, and I have no where to pull over and check the fuel pressure on the engine. Byt the time I get to an exit there is usually preassign but low. I have a holley, but it jetted and running great on my garage queen. I am kind of skeptical to take it off and jack that car up due to bad luck. One issue that I have thats different then most is I live in the Inland Empire in souther california, and I sit in traffic for over an hour for a 14 mile drive. Road construction does wonders out here it last years. This taxes the cooling system. It hasn;t boiled over so I can only assume it cooling the water enough to keep it from boiling.

    Can someone with an infra red temp guage take some manifold readings after some spirited driving? I would like to see if my readings are close to normal.
     
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  7. mustangman1974

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    I think I might have found the problem. This weekend I took off the manifold and noticed 1 side of the manifold had oil in it. I traced the ports and they went to #1 and #6 which both had oily plugs. I looked closely at the gasket and it looked like there was a little hard piece of RTV silicon which made a vacuum leak from underneath the manifold. Hopefully this was it. even though the o2 sensor real rich mixture, and leaned our under load, maybe it leaned out because of the bad gasket.

    Next thing i noticed was all the intake valves on the #1, #4, #6, #7 are all crusty with #1, #6, the closest together the crustiest.

    Last thing. There is a brown slimly crap in the block's water passages. Nothing in the radiator or intake manifold. Is this rust? I thought the new prestone red at 60-50% would keep rust from forming.

    Any thoughts?s
     
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  8. RMODEL65

    RMODEL65 Member

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    i didnt read all the post, but i see gt40 heads was this added later after the motor was built??

    if so sure your head gaskets are on correct might have one backwards and it overheats and popped a gasket causing the misfire
     
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  9. coogs

    coogs New Member

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    The ignition electronic? When the controller box gets hot, the transistors
    lock up. When it acts up pour water on the ign. box. This is a trade secret
    I should get paid for. Since I'm new here and you all seem like dweebs I
    thought I would give a "freebee"
     
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  10. mustangman1974

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    No head gaskets are on correctly. I purchased a ford motor about 3 years ago.

    No the only electronic ignition is the hyfire II module and MBI unit. Hyfire was removed in may and sent to mallory to be rebuilt, but checked out fine. I never reinstalled it. MBI unit replaced just to see if that was the problem and nothing changed.

    I am kind of hoping that it was an intake gasket leak from the bottom. We will see I am planning on firing it up tonight to see.

    Well late night I used a piece of glass and 320 grit sand paper to smooth out intake. I am kind of wondering if I block off the heat crossover will I run cooler? I noticed some manifolds already have it blocked off. Any suggestions?
     
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  11. STSFCTN67

    STSFCTN67 New Member

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    Not to sound disrespectful but if I were you after dealing with this problem for well over a month, I would bring it in to a performance shop and have another set of eyes to look at it. You are only going farther and farther and deeper and deeper into a problem that may be a simple fix.
     
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  12. mustangman1974

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    That is how I ended up with the fluidyne radiator to deal with it running hot. Then they discovered because my car was a 64 1/2 and the engine sits closer to the radiator and they could not install the taurus fan. After that they gave up. I took it to 2 different motor shops and the ford dealer where I had the engine drop shipped, they checked everything I did and about 500 bucks between all the places in friggen fees nothing is different just bullsh&& try this. All stuff I found on this board.

    A friend of my dad's tuned once in 94 and I never had any problems. He died and its been an up hill learning curve. My friends are computer techies and engineers so when I ask them they know the theories but no application.

    The only moteheads I know are they posters here. so thats why I am trying to post as much information as possible.

    So do I block that port?
     
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  13. mustangman1974

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    ok Fired it up today waited over 24 hours to let the rtv cure. I replaced the radiator hoses with new ones and installed springs in both the top and bottom to eliminate an chance of hose collapse or kinking. It fired right up no problem. let it warm up. Topped off radiator. I left it open as I tried to turn it so it would burp. This time I watched the problem occur, which means by changing the thermostat or intake made the problem worse or isolated it.

    I only have a narrow band o2 sensor, my friend took back his lm-1 about a week ago. All I could get at an idle 12.1-12.7. IT would barely run any leaner. And I know thats not lean its rich.

    However, I noticed the longer it ran the less full my clear fuel filter got. It also started missing when I tried to rev it up. Fuel pressure also went from 7 to 3psi. I then check the temp and of course its at 200-210.

    Now what? Could it be my fuel pump? How can I check for vapor lock?:(:(:(:(:(
     
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  14. MitchGT

    MitchGT Member

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    point the fuel line into a coffee can and see if it pours out. I missed whether or not you have a fuel pump on the engine or by the tank. I would put one by the tank and see if that helps.
     
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  15. Hack

    Hack Active Member

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    I agree with others that it sounds like the main driveability issues seem related to a fuel delivery problem. Have you checked every bit of fuel line under the car for kinks or any other problems? Is there a filter sock in the gas tank? Have you checked/replaced that?

    I had a car with problems when it got warm and I eventually found a crushed fuel return line under the car where a previous owner had jacked up the car. :nonono: Do you have an electrical pump running pushing the fuel against a fuel pressure regulator (dead end), or do you have a system with a return line in it?

    I recommend using a return system with an electric pump.
     
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  16. other_shoe

    other_shoe Member

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    I have a series of fuel system questions that is somewhat on-topic. Does the gas cap provide venting for the fuel tank? If not, how does the stock one-line system keep from building up a vacuum on the back end, i.e. at the tank? If so, couldn't a bad cap (or vent) cause a lock up in fuel delivery once the pump has pulled a given volume out of the tank?

    I had wondered this years ago when I was having a similar problem, but as I posted earlier it turned out to be a bad coil.
     
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  17. oz

    oz
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    How old is the gas tank? Does your filter have rust particles in it? As I mentioned earlier, if you have rust in your fuel bowls (as you mentioned), your fuel system is most likely not delivering adequate fuel. Yea, 200 degrees is not preferred but I think you need to start getting into the fuel system more deeply.
     
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  18. mustangman1974

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    mechanical fuel pump. the pressure gauge reads 7 when cold.

    I checked hard line and there are no kinks. I also pressure tested and found no leaks 50 lbs of air.

    regulator is dead end, but is a mechanical fuel pump.

    gas cap is vented.

    original fuel tank but I flush it about every two years. was done in may.

    yes rust in float bowls. powder stuff.

    gona try coil I am gona be soooooooooo f#$Kin ****ed if that is it. I always keep one in the trunk because I used to fry them in car washes.
     
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  19. ron67fb

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    Today's the first time I went into this thread and I'm amazed on all the goofy suggestions to an obvious problem. You're chasing everything for nothing. It's a vapor lock problem and nothing else, it should already been obvious in your post dated 7/31. Empty fuel filter? 3 PSI? There's your problem right there. The line doesn't have to touch anything hot. Being exposed to hot air from the radiator is enough to boil it. I've had the same problem and when I sprayed cold water on the fuel line the pressure shot up. As soon as the water evaporated it dropped to 3psi again. The line was touching nothing except the filter and pump, and I had a crushed line under the car. You have a Taurus fan? Chances are the hot air is blowing directly at the line. Did you insulate the line all the way from the pump to the carb?

    Misses and sputters above 4500RPM, sounds like hitting a rev limiter. Been there done that. Keep in mind I have a Shelby-style hood with scoop and rear vents and it still vapor locked.
     
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  20. mustangman1974

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    I messed with the fuel line today and wrapped it with header wrap. That kept the pressure about 5.5 Cold it starts at 7.5 and goes down to 6-5.5. I also installed my backup coil. I returned it according to edelbrock's directions. Timing is now set at 12-13. (hard to get closer then that with cast timing mark).

    I will say that the vacuum is stronger after the intake replacement. at 800 rpm its 21 and in gear about 17.

    However it still runs like crap when the temp hits 200. It bogs even in the garage in park when I try to goose it. Now I did some thermal readings with a laser gun and a contact thermometer. The water at 200 enters the top around 190-197. The lower radiator varies from 140-170. So it is obviously cooling the water.

    I ordered some thermal wrap for fuel lines. I should have it on tomorrow and I will let you all know. I also bought a rebuild kit for my carter AFB. I will set it up to see if maybe the rust blocked something inside the carburetor. Hell after that all I have left is replacing the fuel pump and the entire cooling, ignition, and air fuel system has been replaced.
     
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