no start=big problem... need help!

[Chythar]

BTW, I noticed some stripped wires on the harness coming from the fuel injectors out to the distributor were touching each other. I covered the exposed parts with electrical tape and so far so good with regards to the blown #18 fuse.

BINGO! You did actually see some smoke then. One problem solved, and it looks like you have the other one about to be wrapped up. Here's hoping AZ gives you a good dizzy this time.

If you have the time and $$$$, I recommend Performance Distributors and their Firepower Ignition kit. Pricey I admit, but well worth it IMO.

 

[HISSIN50]

Nice work guys.

As an aside, it's cool that Chythar is so willing to come out and help.

 

[grngt50]

Nice work guys.

As an aside, it's cool that Chythar is so willing to come out and help.

agreed Definitely a stand up guy in my book!

-James

 

[Chythar]

Hey, the crew here at StangNet is almost family. And when your DD is out and you're gonna be missing work, I'll do what I can to help. Of course, now that grngt50's driving a Z28 (even temporarily), he's on his own...

 

[grngt50]

Hey, the crew here at StangNet is almost family. And when your DD is out and you're gonna be missing work, I'll do what I can to help. Of course, now that grngt50's driving a Z28 (even temporarily), he's on his own...

LT fun baby !

Another update:
So I picked up another dizzy today.........stabbed it, nada. Just when I was gonna pull it again, I figured I'd restart it one last time because I was pretty sure I stabbed it correctly, as I've gotten quite good at it the last few days
Anyhow, car fires and runs great........I let it idle this time for several minutes when I set my timing and what not. So I decide to go get some gas and come back My car had other ideas So now I'm fresh off the AAA truck back at the pad and I figure I might as well check out the other ignition components to rule out faulty parts. First the MSD coil comes off and back goes the stocker.........car fires and runs great for a few minutes, then suddendly dies. Now comes off the MSD 6a.....again, car runs fine for a few then dies unable to be restarted.

I don't know what else to check.......can a faulty TFI cause the symptoms I'm having? Will it throw a code if bad? Thanks again everyone!

-James

 

[grngt50]

just cleared computer and ran codes.........passed 111 but car still wont start

-James

 

[HISSIN50]

Just for review:

When it won't restart, do you have spark and injector pulsing?

As for throwing codes, it's iffy. The IDM monitors the ignition but it can only do so much, especially if a primary sensor is bad.

 

[grngt50]

Just for review:

When it won't restart, do you have spark and injector pulsing?

As for throwing codes, it's iffy. The IDM monitors the ignition but it can only do so much, especially if a primary sensor is bad.

I don't know how to check and see if the injectors are pulsing......but I'm guessing it would require special tools that I don't already have. Same with checking for spark. Can you fill me in on how to do this/what tools would be needed? Also, what are your thoughts on a possible bad TFI module?

Thanks,
James

 

[HISSIN50]

Testing for spark and injector pulsing would tell ya if the TFI is working.

You can buy an ignition spark tester at the parts store. Or just pull a plug wire and insert an old plug into the wire. Set the plug on the intake so the threads are touching metal and crank the engine. You'll be able to see if spark is jumping the plug gap.

To check injector pulsing, you should use a noid light. They're a couple bucks at better parts stores. In a pinch you can use a test light. The injectors have constant key-on voltage and the ground to them is modulated via the EEC. A noid light biased across a given injector's electrical connector should flash very quickly if things are copacetic.

 

[grngt50]

with the noid light test, do I need to check all of the injectors for pulse, or just one? I hope it's not all because I have no way to access all the injectors without pulling the upper manifold. Thanks again mang!

-James

 

[HISSIN50]

with the noid light test, do I need to check all of the injectors for pulse, or just one? I hope it's not all because I have no way to access all the injectors without pulling the upper manifold. Thanks again mang!

-James

It's like testing spark. We generally check one cylinder and assume the rest will follow suit. I test one injector connector - if it recursively excites then I assume the others will do the same. Of course if there's bad wiring to one injector or a bad injector driver in the PCM, that could be missed (as would having a bad plug wire be missed if only checking one wire for spark).

Given your all-or-nothing issues with the car, that above concern doesn't really apply.

Just check one that's easy to access.

Oh yeah, on spark testing: if you're real pinched for time, I just toss an inductive timing light on a plug wire and see if the timing light strobes nice and consistant. It's a super quick way to check spark (though not as accurate as watching it jump a plug gap).

 

[grngt50]

"Does the CEL go out when the engine is cranked over? If the PCM receives a signal from the crankshaft sensor or the ignition module, the CEL should go off when cranking. If the light stays on steady, the PCM is not receiving a crankshaft sensor signal and will not provide injector pulse or spark"

Can anyone verify the above statement to be true? I just tried this and my check engine light stays on while cranking the engine. I still am going to check for spark and injector pulse as Hissin instructed, but I happened to come accross this and wondered if it was true.

Here is the source http://www.asashop.org/autoinc/april2006/techtips.htm

-James

 

[grngt50]

It's like testing spark. We generally check one cylinder and assume the rest will follow suit. I test one injector connector - if it recursively excites then I assume the others will do the same. Of course if there's bad wiring to one injector or a bad injector driver in the PCM, that could be missed (as would having a bad plug wire be missed if only checking one wire for spark).

Given your all-or-nothing issues with the car, that above concern doesn't really apply.

Just check one that's easy to access.

Oh yeah, on spark testing: if you're real pinched for time, I just toss an inductive timing light on a plug wire and see if the timing light strobes nice and consistant. It's a super quick way to check spark (though not as accurate as watching it jump a plug gap).

I figured I could test one injector pulse and be good, but I didn't want to assume given my obvious lack of experience/knowledge. I appreciate the pinched for time tips ..........I just got back from a 12.5 hour shift at work.........tired!


-James

 

[grngt50]

thought this might be worth mentioning..........I pulled codes again and this time came up with code 121 TPS out of self test range.

-James

 

[grngt50]

update for those who have been helping/following,

I checked for spark using the spark plug on the manifold method and found out I'm not getting any spark..........haven't had a chance to pick up a noid light yet.

So still with no spark, I have been able to eliminate the MSD6a box, MSD and stock coil, fuses and PIP sensor as the culprit. I'm going to go out and pick up a new TFI and throw it on the car and see what happens; I'll update again after

-James

 

[HISSIN50]

update for those who have been helping/following,

I checked for spark using the spark plug on the manifold method and found out I'm not getting any spark..........haven't had a chance to pick up a noid light yet.

So still with no spark, I have been able to eliminate the MSD6a box, MSD and stock coil, fuses and PIP sensor as the culprit. I'm going to go out and pick up a new TFI and throw it on the car and see what happens; I'll update again after

-James

James, I might have missed something here. If there's no spark, how do we know the box or PIP are not the issue?

With no spark, I'd put a test light across the electrical connector for the coil. Have someone crank the car and watch for the light to flash real quick. If it does, your coil is bad.

If the test light didnt spark, check the positive electrical wire to the coil for KOEO 12 volts (it will be constant). If you have this but the test light didnt flash in the previous test, then check injectors. If the noid flashes, have your TFI tested (it's likely bad).
If the noid is also quiet, the PIP is likely, though the TFI can also be at fault (the PIP signal passes through the TFI before reaching the EEC, so a bad TFI can impede the EEC from getting a PIP signal).

 

[grngt50]

James, I might have missed something here. If there's no spark, how do we know the box or PIP are not the issue?

With no spark, I'd put a test light across the electrical connector for the coil. Have someone crank the car and watch for the light to flash real quick. If it does, your coil is bad.

If the test light didnt spark, check the positive electrical wire to the coil for KOEO 12 volts (it will be constant). If you have this but the test light didnt flash in the previous test, then check injectors. If the noid flashes, have your TFI tested (it's likely bad).
If the noid is also quiet, the PIP is likely, though the TFI can also be at fault (the PIP signal passes through the TFI before reaching the EEC, so a bad TFI can impede the EEC from getting a PIP signal).

Hissin,

I am getting no spark with and without my MSD box hooked up.........same with the stock coil and MSD coil. As far as the PIP is concerned, I am only guessing that it is not the problem. I would hope not though as this is the second replacement from the parts store.

I still have to go out and buy a test light/noid light so I can't run the other tests you recommend right this moment. I will report back with more results when I do.

-James

 

[grngt50]

damnit!!



Getting ready to drive this b$#@$ off a cliff! New TFI and replaced TPS with old one had laying around, still nothing. It actually started again and ran for like 30 seconds or so..........then the tach went nuts and died never to be revived. I'm out of ideas guys............any last thoughts before the mechanic gets it?

-James

 

[grngt50]

just to add, I do have spark now when I crank the engine

Can a bad ignition switch be a suspect? I forgot to mention that my tumbler has been giving me grief for the longest time, but especially bad about a day before the car died completely. I had been able to spin it freely and also take my keys out of the ignition while driving. The other day, I really had to fight the ignition tumbler just to turn my car off. I dunno, just some random thoughts. What do you guys think? What are the symptoms of a bad ignition switch?

-James

 

[grngt50]

just to add, I do have spark now when I crank the engine

Can a bad ignition switch be a suspect? I forgot to mention that my tumbler has been giving me grief for the longest time, but especially bad about a day before the car died completely. I had been able to spin it freely and also take my keys out of the ignition while driving. The other day, I really had to fight the ignition tumbler just to turn my car off. I dunno, just some random thoughts. What do you guys think? What are the symptoms of a bad ignition switch?

-James

scratch that.........no spark again WTF?