Nov. issue of Motor Trend: Auto GT goes 13.6 @ 99

Discussion in '2005 - 2014 S-197 Mustang -General/Talk-' started by Avenger, Sep 26, 2004.


  1. jasonlee0704

    jasonlee0704 New Member

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    :shrug: Did you even go visit the links? The i-club link had several WRX owners arguing over a 13.3 ET bone stock, and a 13.1 with mods. The only dude there claiming 12s (about the modded STi) thought that a "better reaction time" would give him a better ET. :rlaugh:

    The other two links had bone stock STis at 13.36 and 13.2. Where are you getting this mythical 12.9?
    #81
  2. mball

    mball Banned

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    You obviously know nothing about the car you are talking about, have you even SEEN one? It has a little thing called a "rev limiter" which will not allow you to rev it to the redline and drop the clutch. The STi's clutch and tranny is very durable, I know several guys who wind to 5-6K RPMs and drop the clutch frequently and they have had no problems. As for the Momo steering wheel, why dont you go drive the STi, go ahead, take it into a couple good turns at 50 mph and then get back in your Mustang and try the same thing. Then come back and tell me its no big deal :nice:
    #82
  3. mattkimsey

    mattkimsey I've compiled a list to recap this thread:

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    13.0-13.2 is still gonna be faster than a 05 GT most likely. The Sti and Evo also have exceptional brakes (I think the Evo set a motor trend record beating a ferrari in 60-0 braking). They both slalom 70+ mph....I think motor trend swapped out the tires and slalomed something like 73mph or somethin crazy like that. Being a factory power adder cars, its easier to get more power by doing simple bolt-ons. Look at the 99-04 GTs, those guys do a catback and gain like 2-5rwhp...WOW!

    Someone said earlier you could just get some Brembo brakes for the 05 stang but the 05 stang is still going to weigh more which will affect it's stopping distance in a negative way. Also if you got the brakes your argument for the 05 Mustang being cheaper is out the window and you still have a car that doesn't handle as well, run the 1/4 as fast, or respond to mods as well. Another thing missing would be the functionality of AWD.

    AWD Turbo cars, the way of the future.....
    #83
  4. Omegalock

    Omegalock New Member

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    Ummmm he's not Japanese dude. Hau Thai-Tang? Hell that doesn't even sound Japanese.

    Oh and just a quick FYI as well rap wouldn't be as big as it is now without white kids buying it but make no mistakes that it would most definately "be on the map". Then again you probably wouldn't be listening to rock today if your predocessors hadn't taken "black" music and started listening to it and thinking it's cool.
    #84
  5. Omegalock

    Omegalock New Member

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    If it is faster it'll be on average maybe a tenth faster if at all. If a we are going by what well driven cars do well driven Machs also hit around 13.2 as well.

    The forced induction maybe but the AWD and the inline four engine will never ever replace the V8 and RWD in American performance. Sorry just not going to happen. If you feel like that's the superior thing...so be it but prepared to be disappointed when the domestic OEMs still are making v8 RWD and people are still buying them up by the bushel. Hell even the Japanese are rumored to be making rip offs of American pony cars with V8s and RWD for their next generation of performance cars.
    #85
  6. PONY XPRESS

    PONY XPRESS New Member

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    Glad your a Bush man & getting laid.

    Rice & Rap? Keep your post straight when your trying to debate. Not my post.

    We will have to agree to disagree about the social & economical differences & effects of USA VS Japan & other nations.

    As far as Japan being a great country, remember Pearl Harbor?


    PS tomservo92: I'm blessed with a great occupation consulting with about 60 new car dealers. I get to ride or drive in many new models. Glad you like your "6", not for me.
    #86
  7. TomServo92

    TomServo92 New Member

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    Rumor has it that they're working on a Mazdaspeed 6 with AWD and a 270HP turbo 4. Doh! I just gave mball another car to rave about!
    #87
  8. SVTdriver

    SVTdriver Founding Member

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    Well it's nice to know you checked the links I gave. :rolleyes: Yes the STI transmission is stronger than the regular WRX. But what 1/4 mile times are you getting out of your STI? Can you suggest a street that I can legally take 50mph turns?
    #88
  9. prunedawg

    prunedawg New Member

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    ya he is from south korea or south vietnam. I cant recall but i watched something on tv a while back, about him.
    #89
  10. Stangninjak

    Stangninjak Member

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    Heh a STI is easily a 30k + car the last time I checked. Also the top EvO is a 30k + car as well. Now do not get me wrong, these are nice cars and comes with great packages. They are RALLY inspired cars though, and thus drive as such.

    Mustangs have been and always will be 1/4 preformers. Their legacies have always been on the drag track. Saying a mustang will not outpreform a Evo or WRX on the track is a given. It SHOULD not be able to. But the same can be said in the quater mile as well. A Evo or a WRX is not going to beat a Mustang on the 1/4 track. Plain and simple. And BTW the COBRA is in that class bone stock, not a GT.

    As for the AWD thing, well a guy is still blaming me for burning his clutch up when he tried to take me on the track....His STI was just not up for the job even though his arguement was that HOTROD magazine said his car could take a cobra....sad sad sad.
    #90
  11. PONY XPRESS

    PONY XPRESS New Member

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    Thanks for clarifying that fact guys.

    This thread is so high jacked here is some more. You mention Vietnam & Korea. If Truman had let MacArthur clean up the Pacific Rim those two wars would probably not have been fought & we wouldn't have the issues we have today.

    Now the Mitsubishi factory that built Zero's is building EVO's. BONZI MF
    #91
  12. SirWindsor

    SirWindsor New Member

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    where are my head gaskets?

    It no big deal!! :shrug: done it.

    when that modded EVo/STi owner takes their car in for a new clutch. "what do you mean it's gonna be 6 hours labor?" haha "What do you mean my center, front and rear diff is shot? I need new CV axles?" a similar amount of bolt-ons on an 03/04 cobra and your awd 4bangers wont do so well.

    The suspension in the new '05 is much better than some MT writer wants you to think. The GT is built for a much wider audience than the hyper-rice category of the EVo/STi.

    mball and mattkimsey, regardless of the truth (which we all mutually disagree on), do you honestly think that you are going to convince us that other cars are subjectively better than the 05 GT?:shrug: Let me reiterate the GT is designed and built for many more types of people than who the EVo/STi was built for. This target audience defines the direction in suspension design, powertrain design etc... The '05 GT will satisfy more people's desire than an EVo/STi. The skidpad numbers are a derivitive of who the customer is going to be not how skilled the engineers are. If you want an apples to apples comparison grab an urban jungle (or whatever they call it) version of the Evo and run it up against the '00 cobra R. both built for the same driver, pushed the talents of the engineers (price is irrelevant because this comparison is based on maximum performance from the platform)


    Hau Thai-Tang was a vehicles dynamics engineer for Ford Racing in the CART series back in the early '90s. His goal, as Chief Engineer (replacing Art Hyde) was to design a car that would please the most amount of people the most amount of the time. And for this engineer goal he has done an amazing job, just wait till you see more subjective opinions from more writers. He was not told build a low volume streetable racer.

    The sound of a coffee can with a turbo sneeze may be cool for you and your I4 flag waving boy racers but it does not compare to the sound of a screaming V8 (with a blower whine or turbo sneeze)
    My favorite part is making their ears ring right as i wait to put it to the floor when i get to the drivers door. I know my friend did it to me with my own car. I was temporarily def and smiling from ear to ear.

    back to the topic:
    econo-box FWD racers are not sports cars not matter what bastardization the factory does. I can't wait for front engine all wheel drive formula one cars!!
    I mean did you read the sign on the door when you walked in here?

    just leave now.
    #92
  13. vrpirata

    vrpirata Founding Member

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    Have you actually seen the Sti interior, IS the same as the $13k Legacy!!!, have you seen its exterior, IS the same as the $13K Legacy!!!, now you are saying that a turbo and awd is enought to make a grocery-getter-econo-box-pos car worth $30k+. Just go a head and get one, you can be as dumb as you want, I will not.

    Now the Mazdaspeed 6 looks way better inside and outside than the Evo/Sti, and Mazda is a way better brand than the crappy Mitsubishi, I might include the 6 in my list.
    #93
  14. RICKS

    RICKS New Member

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    mball, how old are you and have you ever actually DRIVEN a car on the track?? :rolleyes: Let's say (purely hypothetical) the car redlines at 6,500. The factory will set the rev limiter at 6,600-6,700. Most rev limiters sit a bit above the redline on the gauge. If you had any real track experience, you'd know that. He said that you rev the car "to" the redline, not mash the gas, swing right through the redline and crash into the rev limiter. It just makes my head hurt.....
    The Mustang GT NEVER has been intended to be a "race car", nor is it built as-such. If you want a "race car", go buy one, and leave us alone!!! With all that earth-shattering performance of the EVO, you get a ton of compromises that most of the buying public wants no part of. How many times must I repeat myself before it gets through your thick skull, the Mustang GT will sell over 100,000 units a year. That is OVER 20 TIMES AS MANY EVO'S THAT WILL SELL Ford could easily build a GT that would run with the EVO on the track, BUT, that would tug the car so far to the extreme of its target market, that it would only appeal to the same tiny microscopic niche market that the EVO does. Very FEW people want to deal with the negative aspects of driving a "race car" on a daily basis, as is EVIDENCED by the EVO's limited production and importation. If Mitsubishi thought that they could sell more, they would build and import more. But the demand for such a car is tiny, kind of like your ability to realize that this is a Mustang forum. Why must you insist that the Mustang GT commit virtual SUICIDE, just so it can win an open track event against a car that sells like snowsuits in Florida?? You keep saying that you're trying to prove some point, that we're closed-minded toward other cars. We're not at all. We're realists. We don't WASTE TIME comparing the attributes of a $30K pickup truck vs. a $30K luxury sedan vs. a $30K Harley Davidson custom chopper. The Evo occupies a totally different market segment than the Mustang GT. Sitting here, pitting them against each other is about as silly as watching Michael Jordan try to play baseball.
    I never said that the Evo didn't have solid performance. I suppose that when your argument starts getting old and tired, you just start making stuff up out of thin air. And again, all those attributes you list up there comes at a price of liveability, practicality, ride quality, road-noise damping, etc.etc.... It's not a car for everybody....that's why Mitsubishi sells so FEW!! I feel like a broken record!
    :rolleyes: :nonono: :nonono: Yep, I don't know what I'm talking about. I've never owned any top-line performance cars, S351 supercharged, 911, Corvette, and I've never had any track time at Sebring, Road Atlanta, Hallett, etc.etc... Basically, all you've demonstrated to us is that you own a few magazine subscriptions, and can recite #'s that OTHER people accomplished with great fervor. In the back of AutoWeek, they've got a classified section for race cars for sale. Maybe that's where you should shop for your next daily driver :rolleyes:
    #94
  15. Destiny98

    Destiny98 Founding Member

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    Trying to pick a fight are we? There's more than enough bickering in this thread already.

    I speculated months ago on some board somewhere (don't remember which) that the 05' GT would come in somewhere around a 13.5 @ ~103 with the improved power & weight distribution. Looks like I won't be too far off the mark. These cars will be good competition for the f-body camp, (like the Machs) but will be plentiful and easy to come across (unlike the Machs). A year from now you won't be able to swing a dead cat in any mall parking lot without hitting a new Mustang so the stoplight encounters should be frequent (not that I really do that kinbd of thing much anymore).
    #95
  16. mattkimsey

    mattkimsey I've compiled a list to recap this thread:

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    naturally aspirated motors vs. naturally aspirated motors....GM>Ford

    please don't throw stones.
    #96
  17. CatmanJJ

    CatmanJJ Captain Tangnet

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    Don't sleep on the 00'R motor and 5.0 Cammer, or new V10 in the Shelby Cobra, though they aren't mainstream.
    #97
  18. RICKS

    RICKS New Member

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    As an admirer of both, I think Ford has closed that gap. It's a matter of displacement at this point. Look at what Ford is accomplishing with 4.6L versus what GM is doing with 5.7 - 6.0L? It's very on-par, albeit two totally different designs. The only thing I believe that GM
    has really "worked magic" is their fuel economy on their performance engines. 400 h.p., while achieving 30+ mpg on the highway is absolutely stunning. Ford's mod motors are notorious gas hogs, but the VVT on the new 3V motor should be an improvement in that area.
    #98
  19. rhumbline

    rhumbline Founding Member

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    "Mustangs have been and always will be 1/4 performers. Their legacies have always been on the drag track. "

    I would have to disagree with this as Mustang's have had a long and illustrious road racing heritage starting with the Shelby 350s going into the Trans Am series, which begat the Boss 302 and going strong through various venues throughout the decades with SVOs and Cobra Rs amongst many others. It really wasn't until the '67 390s several years after the Stang's introduction that Ford started getting serious about the drag race side of the Stang's performance persona.

    The Mustang, in fact, was initially conceived to be very much in the European "GT" vein and was marketed quite in contrast to the big, fast but clumsy muscle cars of the day. It was only after great internal debate and pressure from the big block F cars just coming out that Ford eventually put in their big block to some detriment to the more balanced dynamic envelope in was originally conceived with. The Mustang's persona has since become somewhat of a Rorschach test with people viewing it as they want to see it, be it road-rat racer, drag queen, poseur's cruiser or whatever else.

    As for comparisons with EVOs and STis, yes, there is a bit of an apples and oranges thing going on here, but that said, they are all mid to upper 20's performance cars that will see each other on both street, track and strip. And while these cars obviously approach there performance by different means, they are all very effective in the end and each ought to give the others suitable respect. While a Stang might have a slight edge on the strip, both the EVO and STi are very fast here and devastating in just about every other venue.

    Hopefully Ford will soon come out with some SEs with upgraded IRS chassis to better gird their capabilities in the corners on lumpy real world roads for those of us who are just as interested in the other 359 degree of the performance compass beyond dead ahead in 1/4 mile spurts on glossy road surfaces (there's that road racing heritage!). The Cobra will, of course, have all that and much more, but at a very premium price. But I'd love to see Stang at a more reasonable price (~$30K) that could better give the EVOs and STis headaches off the narrow and artificial confines of the drag strip too.
    #99
  20. M1Rifle

    M1Rifle New Member

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    Tall 4th and 5th gears, and it runs into redline in 3rd before the end of the quarter.

    Makes me wonder if I should go up to 4.10's and shift in 4th early and pull hard all the way through the end of the quarter, rather than having a 3-4 shift too close to the end...

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