Obd 2 302/351 How To

Discussion in '1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk-' started by enyawix, Mar 9, 2014.

  1. enyawix

    enyawix Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2005
    Messages:
    514
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    17
    Location:
    127.0.0.1
    If the Explorer computer can be flashed for manual transmission the 1999-2001 Explorer computer is my first choice.
     
    #21
  2. TC93

    TC93 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2000
    Messages:
    2,076
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    57
    Location:
    Ellerslie GA 31807
    The 96 F150 with 302 had OBD2 . Could use the timing cover and balancer for mounting crank sensor, and tone ring. Plus get the OBD2 plus and cut harness out of truck harness..
     
    #22
  3. Mustang5L5

    Mustang5L5 Car used in adult film "Highway Gangbang-InDaButt"
    SN Certified Technician Founding Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2001
    Messages:
    21,809
    Likes Received:
    346
    Trophy Points:
    124
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    So how will an OBD2 conversion help emissions?
     
    #23
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2014
  4. madspeed

    madspeed Colonel Mustard
    Mod Dude Founding Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 1999
    Messages:
    8,736
    Showcase:
    9
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    1,292
    Trophy Points:
    174
    Location:
    a van down by the river
    Agreed, i think theres a flaw in that logic
     
    #24
  5. madspeed

    madspeed Colonel Mustard
    Mod Dude Founding Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 1999
    Messages:
    8,736
    Showcase:
    9
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    1,292
    Trophy Points:
    174
    Location:
    a van down by the river
    I would assume the only benefit to going obd2 would be real time diagnostics and the ability to read via a portable device. I got all that with my Moates Quaterhorse
     
    #25
    jrichker likes this.
  6. 91TwighlightGT

    91TwighlightGT Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2002
    Messages:
    595
    Likes Received:
    93
    Trophy Points:
    39
    Location:
    Missouri
    For the ECM reflash, contact Papa John, CobraRthunder, as well as a few others at TCCOA. Every T-bird owner who has done the manual swap had to have the computer flashed. You might also call local speed shops in your area, although I would find a shop that is well known and has experience working with Ford systems.
     
    #26
  7. Noobz347

    Noobz347 Stangnet Facilities Maint Tech... Er... Janitor
    Admin Dude

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 1985
    Messages:
    20,776
    Showcase:
    59
    Albums:
    8
    Likes Received:
    2,730
    Trophy Points:
    174
    Location:
    Box behind Walmart
    Huh? What does converting to OBD2 have to do with emissions testing?
     
    #27
  8. David Pepiton

    David Pepiton Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2011
    Messages:
    677
    Likes Received:
    68
    Trophy Points:
    49
    Location:
    Laveen, Arizona
    well the only thing I can think of is the ability the adjust fuel and have the ability to flash the computer but you can do that with many aftermarket systems which are also more tuner friendly. though if the explorer harness and comp is cheap it would make a great option if you don't mind putting in the time for wiring and such.
     
    #28
  9. NIKwoaC

    NIKwoaC 中國製造

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2006
    Messages:
    8,454
    Likes Received:
    699
    Trophy Points:
    164
    Location:
    Chengdu Province
    You should look into the stuff Decipha does. Dude is some kind of evil genius when it comes to this sort of thing.

    http://www.efidynotuning.com/

    I'm not sure this effort is really going to help emissions, but the newer computers have some advantages in terms of processing speed.
     
    #29
  10. enyawix

    enyawix Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2005
    Messages:
    514
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    17
    Location:
    127.0.0.1
    Some places connect to the OBD2 port on all vehicles 1996 and newer as part of the emissions testing, and exempt cars 1995 and older from testing.
     
    #30
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2014
  11. Mustang5L5

    Mustang5L5 Car used in adult film "Highway Gangbang-InDaButt"
    SN Certified Technician Founding Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2001
    Messages:
    21,809
    Likes Received:
    346
    Trophy Points:
    124
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Correct. I know that my '88 is exempt from the sniffer test completly, so emissions are no longer a concern to me and my daily drivers get the plug in test and pass if no CEL...

    But this statement
    Leads me to beleive your car is perhaps not exempt from a sniffer test? Without knowing your state, it's hard to judge where you are coming from.


    I'm just confused to which I ask if an explorer EDIS does have an impact on actual tailpipe output, or if you are merely looking for a loophole to get out of emissions testing by converting to OBD2 and merely having to do a plug in test?

    If ths first is true, then my technical question remains for which I have an actual curiousity. How does an EDIS system effect actual output emissions on the 5.0? I realize Ford had to swap to OBD2 at some point on the explorer, but the tailpipe standards on a truck are looser than passenger car. So would the EDIS system have enough of an impact to lower a cars output to the point where it passes more stringent standards?

    If the 2nd point is true, I would want something in writing from a gov't agency that states an OBD2 retrofit on an older car allows it to be tested as if it was factory equipped with that management system.
     
    #31
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2014
  12. Noobz347

    Noobz347 Stangnet Facilities Maint Tech... Er... Janitor
    Admin Dude

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 1985
    Messages:
    20,776
    Showcase:
    59
    Albums:
    8
    Likes Received:
    2,730
    Trophy Points:
    174
    Location:
    Box behind Walmart
    This is really the thing right here. I've had to pass emissions testing in a LOT of different places. Some are better/easier than others.

    I can say this about the places that I've been that actually look for error codes:

    If you have say, a 1989 Mustang that came OEM with an A9L and they are required to check for codes, it will fail emissions based solely on the fact that you do not have the test port that came equipped on your car. In many cases, one would not even pass the visual inspection. End of story.

    If the OP thinks that the emissions control people are going to sit back with a cigarette and chatter about the marvelous job that was done to put an OBD2 computer into and OBD1 car, then he is sadly mistaken. Most of these clowns are not even car people. They look at a screen or a book. Their procedure tells them to take emissions accessory 21b and insert into slot 16f. If 21b doesn't fit 16f or if 16f is relocated or doesn't exist... FAIL. They don't take the time to discover the why or how... It's not their problem. What is supposed to be on the car is NOT and that's enough for them to fail you and move on to the next one before the lunch break begins.

    If you have the same car in a state/county that DOESN'T check for error codes but has a dyno, idle, or high idle sniffer test then the only thing that matters is what is coming out of the tail pipe. OBD2 vs. OBD1 makes ZERO difference in this case. The same adjustments to emissions control methods can be made with EITHER of these setups using the same methods but different equipment. EITHER of these ECUs can be tuned so it makes no sense to me why anyone would retro fit.

    If things like what the OP is talking about in this thread were true, then we'd all be ditching the factory catalytic converters and smog pumps in favor of 3-way catalytic converters. They're more efficient and reduce emissions more than the factory pieces. Why don't we? Because that's not how they operate. They want the factory equipment or the car fails, REGARDLESS of the fact that the OEM converters are inferior.


    The best way to pass emissions is and always has been, to have on the car what CAME on the car and to ensure that it is all in good working order.
     
    #32
  13. jrichker

    jrichker StangNet's favorite TOOL
    SN Certified Technician Founding Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2000
    Messages:
    21,979
    Likes Received:
    425
    Trophy Points:
    134
    Location:
    Dublin GA
    That's about the size of it. There isn't much point aside from that and the novelty of it all.
    The facts are that there seem to be more variety in the OBDII world for programmers/scanners.
     
    #33
  14. Bullitt347

    Bullitt347 man bewbs please...

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2007
    Messages:
    1,776
    Likes Received:
    373
    Trophy Points:
    104
    Location:
    Pacific NW
    I live in the state of Washington, and we have the same emissions standards as California, which are the strictest in the country. The standards for passing a pre 1996 car (obd 1) is strictly a tailpipe sniff test, (on a dyno) along with a visual inspection for factory emissions equipment. It does not matter if the check engine light is on as they do not test for codes in an obd 1 car/truck. It is all about the tail-pipe. On an obd 2 vehicle, there is no testing of the tail-pipe emissions, it is all about the scanning for codes present. The way an obd 2 system works, if there is no code, then the tail-pipe readings are good...period, that is why there are no tail-pipe sniffing done to obd 2 vehicles. If you were to install a 5.0 coyote engine into a Fox Body car, then the car would be tested to the standards of the year of the 5.0 coyote engine. It does not work the other way around.......you cannot put a 1966 289 in a 2012 Mustang and expect to have to only pass 1966 standards, it has to pass 2012 standards, meaning all of the 2012 emissions stuff would have to be on the 1966 289, which of course can not happen, as a 1966 289 did not come with 4 valves per cylinder and 4 cams with variable cam timing. So basically the OP is barking up the wrong tree, unless he is doing this as an engineering exercise, and even then is bound to fail the visual part of the inspection process, regardless of how clean the tail-pipe test is. This of course assumes that the emissions testing in the OP's home state is anything like California/Oregon/Washington, or any other state that has adopted the Cali emissions standards.
     
    #34
  15. Noobz347

    Noobz347 Stangnet Facilities Maint Tech... Er... Janitor
    Admin Dude

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 1985
    Messages:
    20,776
    Showcase:
    59
    Albums:
    8
    Likes Received:
    2,730
    Trophy Points:
    174
    Location:
    Box behind Walmart
    This is the first time I've ever seen/heard anything resembling this. In the places that I've been (one of those being CA), if you roll up in a 1989 Mustang (confirmed by VIN) then you have to pass emissions standards stated for that year, make, and model. They don't care about your mods, they don't care about any of that and will not spend time trying to figure it all out. They will perform the standardized test for a 1989 Mustang. If for whatever reason they cannot perform those tests as stated in their manual, then you fail. If the vehicle doesn't meet the minimum requirements for that vehicle then you fail. It's the problem of the owner of the vehicle to ensure that it can pass emissions testing as it is stated in their manual.
     
    #35
  16. Mustang5L5

    Mustang5L5 Car used in adult film "Highway Gangbang-InDaButt"
    SN Certified Technician Founding Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2001
    Messages:
    21,809
    Likes Received:
    346
    Trophy Points:
    124
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    That's how it would be in MA as well

    I think the one stipulation is the engine must be newer than the car. So you could swap a newer engine into an '88, but doing a 302 swap to a 2001 Mustang would be a no-no.
     
    #36
  17. Noobz347

    Noobz347 Stangnet Facilities Maint Tech... Er... Janitor
    Admin Dude

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 1985
    Messages:
    20,776
    Showcase:
    59
    Albums:
    8
    Likes Received:
    2,730
    Trophy Points:
    174
    Location:
    Box behind Walmart

    I 'think' that this can also be done but if you swap a 302W into a 2001 then it has to pass emissions standards for the 2001. If the county you're in does check fault codes for OB2 and you don't have the ability to be tested for those codes then you fail.
     
    #37
  18. Bullitt347

    Bullitt347 man bewbs please...

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2007
    Messages:
    1,776
    Likes Received:
    373
    Trophy Points:
    104
    Location:
    Pacific NW
    The car has to meet the emissions standards of the newer engine that is installed in the car. If you managed to get a Coyote powered Fox Body thru emissions without a visual inspection, you could probably get by, but any visual inspection would get you flagged and the car must meet the standards of the newer engine. When I got emissions repair certified by Washington State they were very firm about this point.
     
    #38
  19. Noobz347

    Noobz347 Stangnet Facilities Maint Tech... Er... Janitor
    Admin Dude

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 1985
    Messages:
    20,776
    Showcase:
    59
    Albums:
    8
    Likes Received:
    2,730
    Trophy Points:
    174
    Location:
    Box behind Walmart

    That is a first for me. I've not been anywhere where that was the case or for that matter, any place that would even take the time to decipher the model year for motor.
     
    #39
  20. enyawix

    enyawix Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2005
    Messages:
    514
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    17
    Location:
    127.0.0.1
    That fits what I am trying to do. I want to swap a 3.8 out of a 1998 mustang and replace it with a 351w and emissions systems from a 1999 5.0 explorer. I will be looking at a emissions test soon so I know what to expect. It seems unlikely they would open the hood and take time to decipher the model year for motor, if there are no codes and the check engine lamp works.
     
    #40

Share This Page