Official Tremec 3650 Issues Thread

Discussion in 'SN95 4.6L Mustang Tech' started by Twisted, May 28, 2003.

  1. metroplex

    metroplex Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2003
    Messages:
    400
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    SE MI
    I have a 2007 TR-3650 and found that the RPM or input shaft or whatever that keeps spinning after you floor the clutch pedal, takes a few moments to spool down when it is cold. Once everything gets warmed up, it seems that it doesn't take as long for the synchros to do their job.

    For instance, if I left my house with a cold engine/trans, doing a simple 2000 RPM granny shift from 1st to 2nd will require a lot of effort to push into the 2nd gear gate. Now, if I revved to 2k, clutched out, and waited about 1-2 seconds, it will be easier to shift into 2nd gear.

    I used 3 qt of Redline High-Temp ATF, but the same thing happened with the factory fill ATF.

    I suppose if you're not careful about this, it can wear out the 2nd gear synchros which seems to happen to some people.
     
    #1741
  2. smokin91'

    smokin91' New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2006
    Messages:
    207
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Just picked up 4 bottles of Royal Purple Synchromax. Going to change out the fluid tomorrow with 3.0L (3.17quarts), Ill report back with the results.

    Damn 946ml bottles, I had to buy an extra bottle just for 150ml! Bastards! If it fixes my harsh 1-2 shift when cold, then well they aren't bastards anymore.
     
    #1742
  3. katshot

    katshot Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2006
    Messages:
    44
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    7
    Location:
    Dover, DE.
    Mine is an '03 Centennial Edition. Got it last Christmas and within a couple week, noticed the grinding 1-2 and 2-3 shifts. Tried switching to a B&M shifter, made no real difference. Took it to the dealer twice and finally they performed the TSB. Seemed better for a short while but gradually got back to the usual poor shifts. Been "living with it" ever since.
    Today, I talked to a friend of mine who owns a Cottman Trans shop (he was doing a trans in my son's Taurus) about the issue. He tells me the problem is "unfixable", at least permanently. He said the problem is two-fold:
    1. The gears are teflon coated and that's why you shouldn't use synthetic fluid (it eats the teflon)
    2. The synchros just don't get enough friction on them to work properly (hence, yet another reason to NOT use synthetic fluids).
    He tells me the only fix is to replace the trans but even that is only temporary. Depending on how the car's driven, the teflon will wear of the gears and then you're left with the grinding shifts.

    He suggested using synchromesh fluid because it supposedly puts some kind of coating on the gears and thereby lessens the teflon wearing off issue, but you're still left with the poor synchro design issue.
    Bottom line, he tells me there's just no real cure for those transmissions.
     
    #1743
  4. metroplex

    metroplex Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2003
    Messages:
    400
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    SE MI
    I have logged about 4100 miles on my 2007 TR-3650. I switched to Redline High-Temp ATF almost from the start. I can now shift it like a German transmission (gently like I'm holding an egg). I revmatch for downshifts all the time. I drive it on a daily basis and the temperature swings have been from 40F up to 90F ambient. I do not notice anything quirky when it is cold nor when it is hot. The Redline High-Temp ATF is the thickest Mercon-spec ATF available. I used slightly less than 3 quarts of ATF. I bought 3 quarts and used a hand pump to push it into the 3650, but there was still a bit of fluid left over in the pump. So far so good.

    I was going to give Royal Purple's Synchromesh a try next if the Redline didn't pan out.
     
    #1744
  5. katshot

    katshot Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2006
    Messages:
    44
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    7
    Location:
    Dover, DE.
    Just got off the phone with TTC. The tech gave me a couple things to check on my car. He wants to know which Ford TSB the local dealer performed on my car, what fluid's in it, and how much.
    We had a good conversation about the transmission, and what their update kits have been pursuant to Ford's TSB's. We also talked about why the trans originally came with Mobil 1 but is now supposed to be filled with Dextron III. We even talked about why the fill level was revised. Sure would be nice if they were to issue some sort of technical paper on the trans, and what the "issues" have been, along with what they say should be done as a fix.
    The guy said he gets a kick out of all the misinformation he reads online too. Some of which, I guess I'm now guilty of adding to since what I posted earlier from my friend was according to this guy, at least partially incorrect.
    As soon as I get a little more info, I'll post more here.
    I almost forgot, when I asked him about using GM Synchromesh fluid, he told me that it would be fine in these transmissions, but he didn't suggest it in my area of the country (PA) since it gets rather cold here in the winter. He said that although the fluid could help in some ways, it would be rather heavy in cold weather, and I probably wouldn't like it. I may still try it anyways. I'll take a heavy shift when first used cold over the grinding, clashing gear shifts I now have any day.
     
    #1745
  6. katshot

    katshot Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2006
    Messages:
    44
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    7
    Location:
    Dover, DE.
    Okay, here's the latest. Had the fluid changed today. Took out the Dextron and put in the GM Synchromesh fluid. Only drove it for maybe 20min. but so far, it seems to have made a big difference. Still not 100% but this may be as good as it's going to get. I've resigned myself to the fact that the transmission is simply a POS unit and there's nothing I can do about it.
    It just amazes me how many people are aware of the Mustang transmission being a POS. I mean virtually everyone I talk to that either knows transmissions, or Mustangs, or both, is aware the late 80's right thru '04 have crap transmissions! How can that be, and there's just no real absolute fix? :jaw: Should be embarrassing to Ford.
     
    #1746
  7. smokin91'

    smokin91' New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2006
    Messages:
    207
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Out of curiosity how much fluid did you put in? Also what is the ambient outside temp today where you live??
     
    #1747
  8. brianmef

    brianmef Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2003
    Messages:
    138
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Gretna, NE
    It was an absolute fix for me. It hasn't ground going from 1st to 2nd since my dealer applied the TSB.

     
    #1748
  9. katshot

    katshot Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2006
    Messages:
    44
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    7
    Location:
    Dover, DE.
    Yesterday was in the upper 40's to low 50's. The amount installed was 3 liters(3.4qts.) which is what I was just told to use as the "proper" fill by a Tremac engineer.
    Not sure if I mentioned it before but I too, had the TSB performed back in early spring. The trans seemed perfect initially but within a couple days, started exhibiting the old grinding 1-2 and 2-3 shifts.
    Damn shame really. Love the car but hate the transmission. I could see me actually getting rid of the car due to the trans at some point. Really takes the fun out of driving it IMO.
     
    #1749
  10. metroplex

    metroplex Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2003
    Messages:
    400
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    SE MI
    3.0 L = 3.17 qt
     
    #1750
  11. katshot

    katshot Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2006
    Messages:
    44
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    7
    Location:
    Dover, DE.
    CRAP!!!!
    You're right. How the hell did I get 3.4?! Damn, now I have to pull some fluid out. Maybe that's why it's better but still not perfect. I'll get back to you on it as soon as I correct the fluid level.
     
    #1751
  12. smokin91'

    smokin91' New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2006
    Messages:
    207
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0

    wait till the temp drops below 30 degrees. Thats really when these transmissions start to "shine" lol.

    Ive ordered a MGW shifter for mine and when I install that, im going to drain the royal purple I have in there now since the first time I had it changed it didnt drip for that long and the change was done cold. I imagine that there was still some residual Mercon ATF now mixed in with the RP. Since I had the TSB done it is much better, but still not perfect.

    Also there is abour 3.5L in there right now. When the MGW goes in I will be putting only 3.0L in. Hopefully dropping the fluid by 1/2 a liter and the MGW will make this tranny shift like it does once its got some heat to it.

    Ill report back once I get the shifter installed and the fluid change. This has got to be like my 5th fluid change. LOL
     
    #1752
  13. jprovence

    jprovence New Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2007
    Messages:
    199
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Albany, OR
    I blew out 3rd gear sync in my car, it was from 3rd gear highway clutch drops only. Driver error, mostly first owner, I am the second. Threw old tranny in the garbage. Bought tranny from my buddyies Mach 1. He went to a TKO600.

    I put in 4 qaurts of Castrol SynTork. It is used in the Viper t-56 and some of the diesel manual trannys. About $75 a gallon. Still notchy shifting, but I think that is beacuse of bad clutch engagement. This was 8000 miles ago, and tranny runs fine and shifts exactly the same no matter the temp or how hard I run. Also I rev match on all down shifts. I never shock the syncs or clutch. At 420ftlbs at the wheels, its been going strong ever since. The tranny has 12k when I got it. The mach had an s-trim and was only bought out to race.
     
    #1753
  14. nwapache

    nwapache New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2006
    Messages:
    316
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Seattle,WA
    my second gear is like a grandma that needs to go to a nursing home.... when its cold I have to hold the clutch in for nearly two seconds shifting into 2nd gear. I didn't know there was a TSB untill today and will contact FORD tomorrow to see if I can get it fixed...
    So far no tranny fluid has helped *changed it 3 times trying to fix* its gotten worse in the last year:notnice:
     
    #1754
  15. 68stang351

    Founding Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2002
    Messages:
    1,925
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    39
    Location:
    Savoy TX
    Mine rattles in reverse, but only if if I'm backing up an incline (like everytime I leave my driveway).
     
    #1755
  16. myponyrocks

    myponyrocks I have more billet on the Stang than most women ha

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2004
    Messages:
    1,256
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    37
    Location:
    RAF Alconbury, United Kingdom
    Hope you have the extended warranty... theres enough trouble getting this fixed UNDER warranty let alone out of it.
     
    #1756
  17. metroplex

    metroplex Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2003
    Messages:
    400
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    SE MI
    How many quarts of ATF did you use? I am using slightly under 3 qt of Redline High-Temp ATF and it has fixed all of the weird shifter issues. My 3650 shifts like butter and I can use 2 fingers to move the shifter around (like properly built German cars).
     
    #1757
  18. hotdog71

    hotdog71 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2004
    Messages:
    427
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Seattle, Eastside
    Whats the best way to fill the tranny? My 5 gear sounds like crap I might try changing to that Red Line ATF can you buy it at any auto place?

    I see people filling it through the shifter after pulling the fill plug off.

    Where is the fill plug located :shrug:
     
    #1758
  19. frangeron

    frangeron New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2008
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    HIGHLAND VILLAGE, TX
  20. frangeron

    frangeron New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2008
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    HIGHLAND VILLAGE, TX
    I'll agree. I had an '87 Ranger Pick-Up and learned that trick('92-'98). Traded it in for a '98 new Ranger with Automatic tranny('98-'07). Traded that in for my current '02 GT, same thing-first to reverse! (braught back old memories :)) After starting release the clutch and reapply clutch, first to reverse-works everytime!
     
    #1760

Share This Page