Forced Induction Planning Kenne Bell Install-what Else Will I Need?

Discussion in '1994 - 1995 Specific Tech' started by Husky44, Apr 30, 2012.


  1. Husky44

    Husky44 Active Member

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    Planning to do a KB install in the next few months. I'm running stock HCI, a few minor mods listed in the sig below that were installed by the PO (also have underdrive pulley kit). I'll probably order the KB CAI kit.

    From researching on here, I understand that I need to upgrade my fuel delivery.

    1) There's another post on here talking about a Focus fuel pump option from the local parts store that should get that job done, versus the boost-a-pump KB option. Any reason I wouldn't want to do the upgraded fuel pump?
    2) KB offers upgraded injectors as an option; I'm thinking I can probably get a better deal on my own--am I missing anything with that thinking?

    What else will I need?

    Goal is to improve the acceleration of the daily driver--not building a track car, just want a little more "go" when I get on it.:cool:

    Thanks!
    #1
  2. Bullitt347

    Bullitt347 man bewbs please...

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    Make sure the ignition system is is good condition. Depending on how much boost you plan to run will determine if any ignition retard is needed. The Boost-A-Pump is much easier to install than a fuel pump, with the fuel pump install, you would have to drop the fuel tank. At least install a new fuel pump. If possible install a fuel pressure gauge and a boost gauge . Again a lot has to do with the amount of boost you plan to run...............please clarify.
    #2
  3. Hef5.0weisen

    Hef5.0weisen Active Member

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    I'd ditch the UD pulleys...or the crank pulley if nothing else. Don't want to slow the blower speed

    Depending on what KB manifolds you get, find a corresponding lower.....took a while but I found a Systemax 1 lower...Holley's, version of the stock lower...there is also Tmoss ported stock lowers, or the GT-40 style...all depends on what type of KB manifolds you get. Mine is the older 1.5, think all they sell is a 2.1, pulleyed for 6psi. Unless you upgrade to the Flowzilla, that should be standard manifolds....Tmoss lower, stock lower, Systemax 1.....

    As far as fuel upgrades....pending what you get...you may not NEED anything else. Sure, you may make things better when you upgrade.....and you may swap pulleys...that'll shift the parameters of the kit you bought...then you may require upgrades. Having said all that...never hurts to have extra fuel.

    I picked up a fuel press and boost gauge...not neccessary but nice to have.

    I'd do standard FoMoCo injectors if you swap them out....tried and true. For a CAI....not sure they have them for older 5.0's now.....and, when they did, they were underhood filters....ironically, KB said not to use an underhood filter.....the standard CAI kits will serve you fine, see you got a bigger TB already. Bigger is good with the KB.

    If you haven't already, look around the tech section at LaSota racing...they got alot of good KB tips on there...think they had one of the fastest KB cars at one point.....

    ZThen comes the whole "get a tune".....again, if yu stay within the paramters of what you bought, you won't need a tune. But, some rollerr time would optimize everything....your call ($$$) on that

    My next thing for this is a meth kit...see what that does. Or, I might put my old NOS 5115 back on with a 25 shot....

    get an extra set of rear tires.....
    #3
  4. Husky44

    Husky44 Active Member

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    As far as amount of boost I plan to run--I have nothing to base this on other than reading what others have written, so I'm open to suggestions, but I was thinking around 10#. That seems to be a very safe number. I want to run pump gas (premium is ok, but don't want to have to deal with race gas), and want to be able to get on it with confidence, without having to worry about doing damage. Again--the goal isn't to have the absolute fastest car on the local commute, but to have more power on tap when I decide to get on it. Car will probably never see a 1/4 mile. Just want to be able to enjoy it a little more (and to take the edge off the urge to buy a new one!).

    I'm planning on buying new, and figure I would go ahead and go the extra for the Flozilla--never found myself yet saying, "darn, I really didn't need to upgrade that much." :D
    #4
  5. Hef5.0weisen

    Hef5.0weisen Active Member

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    Cool....I like the KB's...but they probably aren't gonna be the fastest thing out there. Like you...I got mine for a street car...I tried a Vortech...went with KB.

    Nice choice on the Flowzilla, if I get another KB, I'll be doing the same. I might try a Vortech next though. I'd get a gt-40 type lower....

    And, I think the fuel upgrade will be about mandatory...I'd get the 255 pump and some 42 lber's......an FMU might get you buy, but I'd talk with KB and get a switch chip, if you're going that far, find a cheap LMAF, open up the inlet as much as possible....of course you could go to a dyno, (insert any other type tuning)...that'd be the key variable to getting on it with no worries. I did blow a HG once with a 10lb pulley on...just an FMU....that was playing with fire, and outside of the parameters.
    #5
  6. 94blackcobra

    94blackcobra Member

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    If you get their low boost setup, it will include everything to bolt it on and make it work. If you are wanting to run higher boost, I think more than 9 psi, you are going to have to upgrade your injectors, MAF, and your fuel pump. Plus you will need to have the car tuned. The KB with the flowzilla costs $3700 plus shipping, plus all of the other upgrades you are going to need. If you can do the install yourself you will save some cash but even then you will still be looking at around $5000 when it is all said and done.

    OR, you could go with a Vortech and save yourself some cash. I was going to install a KB on my cobra, but the cost of a new one was astronomical, and I couldnt find a used one after a couple months of looking. I ended up installing a vortech v3, which will be getting dyno tuned this Thursday. I should see around 400 hp at the wheels with a safe and reliable tune.
    #6
  7. 94blackcobra

    94blackcobra Member

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    Here is an email from KB to me:

    #7
  8. Noobz347

    Noobz347 Stangnet Facilities Maint Tech... Er... Janitor Admin Dude

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    You can run the Flowzilla kit using the same pieces and parts as the Blowzilla kit so long as you keep the boost at or below 8psi. The FMU and stock injectors will not support any more than that but will still have room in the blower to grow as you can afford more for supporting mods.

    What's needed that is NOT in that kit is a 255L Hi Pressure in-tank fuel pump at minimum. A BAP is highly recommended. Some have gone for a helper pump like the T-Rex from Vortech in lieu of the larger in-tank but I'm not a fan.

    An OEM ignition system in working order with a boost-a-spark is a better option than an after market multi-spark. That long, fat spark, is idea for a blower that makes boost NOW vs. the short, high intensity, spark that drops down to single spark @3000 rpm.

    Keep and use your stock TB and other items until you're able to upgrade the fuel side of your setup to accomodate more air and boost.

    I would buy the Flowzilla kit with the GT-40 lower now instead of running out of blower and having to upgrade the entire inlet side of the setup later.
    #8
  9. Husky44

    Husky44 Active Member

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    94blackcobra: thanks for the input. I've read your thread on your Vortech (all seven pages of it!), and appreciate your thoughts. I'm pretty well decided on the KB though. I'll be able to do the install myself, and will buy new, just because I don't want to take the chance on buying used. I'm sure lots of folks have had good success buying used blowers, but I'm "that guy".
    #9
  10. 94blackcobra

    94blackcobra Member

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    For me it came down to what was more economical and the Vortech ended up being much more affordable than the KB by around $1500.
    #10
  11. SVT3183

    SVT3183 Member

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    10# is too much it runs too hot at least with my 1.7. 8# is where i am at and the max i would go. they're all 2.1 now but i doubt that changes enought that you can get 2 more pounds out of it. move the air temp sensor to the lower intake manifold and make sure you get a tune. your tune should pull timing as the temps rise. also, you need to get an afpr on it but that is easier said than done. look at my sig for extras.
    #11
  12. toyman

    toyman SN Certified Technician

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    I run my KB 2.1 @ 8 psi and the intake temps are high (+200*F) on both the #5 intake or the KB discharge manifold. Not certain why you think the OP needs an afpr? The stock one works fine and one shouldn't tune the AFR by adjusting fuel pressure. The AFR in a tune is adjusted by changing the injector pulse rate in the fuel map. Injector spray patterns are pressure sensitive.
    #12
  13. Husky44

    Husky44 Active Member

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    toyman: Will 8# be too high? I'm reading both yours and SVT3183's setups, and I don't have near the upgrades as you two do (stock heads and cam). Not really wanting to upgrade those now, (but want the possibility in the future) but don't want to spend the coin for the KB if I'm not going to see significant gains because I'm restricting it with the stock heads/cam. I was under the impression I'd be able to get big performance gains on the stock hardware by going the supercharger route. I know I can get bigger gains by upgrading all the supporting hardware, but not ready to do a radical engine build.
    #13
  14. toyman

    toyman SN Certified Technician

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    If I were to do it over again I would start with the Blowzilla/Flowzilla. That will require a lower GT40 intake. If you go with KB Blowzilla with the standard intake you will be limited to about 8 psi unless you have the bypass option. The standard KB @6 psi does add significant power gains over stock and is a blast to drive. I ended up doing the engine build a couple of years after installing the KB when I found out #8 cylinder was weak. It was at that time I decided to go with a stand-alone ECU, go with 42# injectors and install the GSS340 255 lph fuel pump. Suspension upgrades and transmission upgrades were also done while the engine was stock. The wide band was installed just after the KB was installed so I could check the AFR as I was relying on the FMU to manage the extra fuel requirements and wanted to be able to log the AFR under different throttle positions. Headers and radiator where changed after the engine build as well.
    #14
  15. Stangstroke

    Stangstroke Member

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    Husky 44

    Unless your willing to spend a ton of money on this car as i have your best bet is to just add the basic KB with the standard intake and do the minimal upgrades the flowzilla intake on a stock motor won't give you much of a gain unless you find a way to cool intake temps via an air to air intercooler, meth injection doesn't do enough either. I have spent the farm on this build and would never do it again i have a cool car but it's alot of work and cash to make it work right. The standard kit will give you around 330 RWHP and will be fun on the street and just be happy with that. If i was to do it all over again i'd buy a new Mustang GT and put a KB on that and make 550 to 600 all day on a stock motor!!!!
    #15
  16. Noobz347

    Noobz347 Stangnet Facilities Maint Tech... Er... Janitor Admin Dude

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    I agree that an intercooler would be awesome and would probably give up my first born to have one for my setup but the rest... no so much.

    The Flowzilla inlet is by far, the most cost effective upgrade for this kit. Inlet restrictions are the boon for BD blowers and the more of it you have, the more difficult it is to make boost and keep temps down. I started with the Blowzilla kit and converted later on. I picked up (on an average spring day) 3-4 lbs of boost from an intial 10 psi. by making no changes other than installing the larger inlet. That includes reusing the same 75mm throttle body from the Bliowzilla kit, spinning the same blower RPM, with no readable difference in outlet discharge temps. To me, that's HUGE! Take it a step further and install an 80mm+ TB and wide open mass air sensor, and your inlet restrictions become even less.

    As for water/meth, it's about implementation. If you're shooting water/meth into the blower inlet then sure.... results aren't going to be stellar. Have the pressurized manifold machined to accept the meth injector on the hot side of the blower, and results will be better. Not a simple task but worth considering.
    #16
  17. Stangstroke

    Stangstroke Member

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    On my car the max i could only get 8lbs of boost because of the stupid flowzilla design to many turns and bends not efficient at all and my intake temps and heat soaks increased alot could bearly drive the car on hot days.
    #17
  18. Noobz347

    Noobz347 Stangnet Facilities Maint Tech... Er... Janitor Admin Dude

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    I've heard stuff like that before and I don't get. I run my 2.2L Flowzilla ontop of a stroker and depending on ambient temp and humidity, push about 13 lbs of boost. My tune pulls timing out as the temps increase.

    A good part of the difference is the likely result of the engine build and cam. The cam was selected by FTI specifically for this build running this supercharger.
    #18
  19. Stangstroke

    Stangstroke Member

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    13lbs of boost i don't know how you ever got that when we set my car up without any kind of intercooler when we tried putting more boost to it we were measuring about 1.5lbs of vacuum on the inlet side of the blower after the throttle body which makes the boost counter productive. I was also doing this on a stroker motor a 331 to be exact the most RWHP i made non-intercooled was about 330hp and about 380ftlbs of torque not great for all the money and work in the motor to that point.
    #19
  20. Noobz347

    Noobz347 Stangnet Facilities Maint Tech... Er... Janitor Admin Dude

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    Agreed, I'd be disappointed with that myself. When the new motor was completed, I tossed the Blowzilla onto the new combo, unchanged. It made 3psi on the new motor where it was making 9 psi on the OEM shortblock. I ran that way for a while until I could get back to the tuner and get it dialed in with the new motor. On the dyno, after some tuning and pulley changing, I was putting down a little over 400 HP and somewhere around 460 ft lbs with 9-10 lbs of boost. AFR right around 12.1:1 and do not remember the total timing but I do remember having conversation about the EEC/Tune pulling timing on subsequent runs as everything warmed through.

    Fast forward to now. Flowzilla inlet and one size larger pulley (I've accumulated several). At WOT on an average day, I see the boost gauge run just over the line @13 psi. No knocking or pinging, 93 Octane pump gas, OEM style ignition system with a boost a spark, and a nice steady AFR in the very low 12s at full tilt.

    The damned thing runs like a raped ape.

    On hotter/more humid days, I don't see the boost gauge get as high. It does vary. On a 100* day for instance, I'd probably see 10 psi on the gauge.

    I've never had the car/engine dynoed without the blower. It's been on it since day one, so I can't say how much of the entire combo is the direct result of motor or boost.

    I think if I dug around, I could probably come up with my build sheet somewhere, if you're interested.
    #20

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