Power Steering Issue.

Discussion in 'Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech' started by striker911411, Jun 22, 2013.


  1. striker911411

    striker911411 Member

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    Got a new rack and P, new pump, and cap. Now its still shooting fluid out of the vent on the cap. The only thing I can figure now is the hoses. Like maybe some air is getting in somehow and causing a pressure issue? I put the new o-ring in the pressure line but it still seems loose.

    My question is that, what if this does not fix it? Can the rack need adjustment like as if its turning to hard to one side? Hope thats not sounding confusing but not sure how to word it. Any advice otherwise? The system was not dirty. I had no real failure. The first rack never went bad. The steering wheel came loose and I thought I needed a rack. Then later the pump started spitting and so I thought I needed a new one. As you might know by now, I am not having much luck. :bang:
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  2. jrichker

    jrichker StangNet's favorite TOOL SN Certified Technician Founding Member

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    Buy several extra quarts of fluid to run through the system to flush it when you change the rack. The car needs to be up on jackstands for the next step. Fill the pump up, start the car, and turn the wheels lock to lock to bleed the air out. Then stop the engine, disconnect the low pressure hose (the one that is secured with a hose clamp) and drain the pump. Re-connect, refill and do it several more times or until the fluid looks clear and not burnt or black.
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  3. striker911411

    striker911411 Member

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    I tried bleeding by turning lock to lock and after 50 turns it was just doing the same thing. Turn right and everything was cool, and it was more easy to turn (On jacks). Turn left and it pushes fluid and bubbles up. Its almost like its sucking air in when you turn right and causing expansion when you turn left. My new hoses will be here on Tues. Unless anyone says anything else otherwise after this update I will just change them out and see what it does. I did not drain the system like you where saying though. I took a 60ml syringe and sucked some out with it filled up the reservoir. This way I could save some of the fluid.

    Does it sound like im missing something or sucking in air is provable?
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  4. madspeed

    madspeed Colonel Mustard Mod Dude Founding Member

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    i wait on the new line and try it again usng the method posted
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  5. mikestang63

    mikestang63 Mustang Master

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    I would always disconnect the low side hose and flush out the system in a bucket when I changed a rack, pump, or hose, otherwise you are running all the old fluid and crap through the new rack. Cheap insurance as who knows how old that fluid is. You can also install a filter inline in the low side hose as an extra measure of safety.
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  6. striker911411

    striker911411 Member

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    Okay got the new lines in and this new pump is worse then the old one. Got all the air and old fluid out and its still pushing fluid out of the vent hole in the cap. The kicker is that the new pump is loud as can be and even killed the engine when I was trying to get the air out. This is so frustrating
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  7. jrichker

    jrichker StangNet's favorite TOOL SN Certified Technician Founding Member

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    Are you sure you aren't overfilling the reservoir? It only takes about 1/2" of fluid on the pump dipstick to fill it up to operating level.
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  8. striker911411

    striker911411 Member

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    Ya cause it was doing the same thing before I changed the pump and hoses. I kept having to add some. I could go to and from work once then the next day I might make it to work and have to put more in.
    What do you think about the cooler? I wonder if it has a small leak and sucks air in but does not leak fluid. Strange but its no the return (low pressure) side. Thats a thought. Another one is maybe I got a pump that turns the wrong way this time? Been thinking about them possibility's today. Im stumped otherwise.
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  9. 7991LXnSHO

    7991LXnSHO Active Member

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    I wonder about the air leak too. I know there is black light dye you can add to fluids that could detect a leak. But the suction is a different thing. Could the PS rack hard line from the non pressured right side be sucking in the air? Or maybe a bad seal on the right side? Those are my best wild guesses.

    Anyone else have the pump overflow when turning the steering with the car off? I had to make sure the air hole in the cap was on the high side when changing sway. Bar bushings.
    #9
  10. striker911411

    striker911411 Member

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    Another update.
    Everything is new and the only thing left is that steering rack I installed in Feb of 2011. So thanks to that hunk of junk I have to put even more money into it. Going to go ahead and put new outer tie rods in and new sway bar bushings. Then get the alignment again. Its only been about a thousand miles since I got the first alignment. Im really annoyed but such is life. At least it will all be new.

    How do I know its the rack:
    I turned her lock to lock over 100 times and it did get tighter but still had really large bubbles coming out all the way till the 101 times I cranked that wheel. I could see if the fluid level ever went down or the bubbles got smaller, but they never did.
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  11. jrichker

    jrichker StangNet's favorite TOOL SN Certified Technician Founding Member

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    Steering rack replacement
    The two inner tie rod ends are usually what wears out, and at $45 each, it's better to get a replacement rack assembly since they are part of the package. The rack is about $100 + a $40 refundable core charge, which you get back when you return the old rack. Be sure to ask for the GT or high performance rack, it has fewer turns lock to lock than the standard rack.

    The flex coupling for the steering shaft needs to be disconnected before you can get the rack out. You should disassemble the coupling by removing the 2 bolts that hold it together. The lower part of the coupling will then come out with the rack, and can easily be removed.

    The tie rod ends can be removed with a tool that looks like a giant "pickle fork", it's less than $8, or some stores will rent/loan one. Remove the cotter pin & nut on the tie end, stick the tool between the rod end and the arm it connects and hammer away. The bigger the hammer, the easier it comes apart.

    Remove the two bolts that bolt the rack assembly to the frame and then pull the rack down. Dropping the rack before attempting to remove the hydraulic lines with save you 30-45 minutes of fussing and sweating, and you’re going to have to remove them anyway. Get a catch pan to dump the fluid in when you disconnect the hydraulic lines. I replaced the rack mount bushings with some Energy Suspension urethane ones. When you re-install the rack assembly, put the rear bushings in the rack assembly and lift it into place. Then install the hydraulic lines, front bushings & washers and tighten down the nuts. Doing it this way makes room for the hydraulic lines without having them bind against the frame.

    To change the tie rod ends, do them one at a time. Loosen the jam nut 1/4 turn, then unscrew the tie rod end from the rack. Turn the jam nut back 1/4 turn to return it to its original position. With the tie rod end removed, use a machinist square to measure the distance between the end of the threaded rod and the jam nut. Sit the bottom of the square against the end of the threaded rod, and the end of the blade of the square against the jam nut. Duplicate the measurement on the new rack and then install the tie rod end and tighten the jam nut. Then do the other side: the front end will need aligning, but the toe in will be close enough to the setting of the original rack to drive to the alignment shop.

    Buy several extra quarts of fluid to run through the system to flush it when you change the rack. The car needs to be up on jackstands for the next step. Fill the pump up, start the car, and turn the wheels lock to lock to bleed the air out. Then stop the engine, disconnect the low pressure hose (the one that is secured with a hose clamp) and drain the pump. Re-connect, refill and do it several more times or until the fluid looks clear and not burnt or black.

    Power steering pressure lines:
    Each hose uses an O ring on each end to seal them. The hoses will swivel when they are installed and tightened into place. That is why there are O rings on the fittings. The O ring is the part that actually makes the pressure seal. If you slide the nut all the way back as far as it will go, you will see the O ring and the groove cut into the center section of the fitting.

    [​IMG]

    Sometimes you will get some white Teflon rings with the pump or rack. The rings go on the threaded part of the fitting to reduce or prevent small leaks. They are not meant to seal the pressure part of the line or substitute for the rubber O ring. Heat the white Teflon seals in hot water and they will be easier to install. You can install the fittings without them and not have any leaks if the O rings seal good.
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  12. striker911411

    striker911411 Member

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    Oh man, thanks for all the info. Very helpful. I had already taken it off except for the steering linkage. Ended up getting frustrated with it and taking a break. I cant get the part till tomorrow but will have to wait on the alignment till the end of the week. So im in no hurry unfortunately.

    After reading all that a question came into play. The new hoses never came with washers to help with small leaks. But I am always sure to put new o-rings on for cheap insurance, every time I have to bust a line loose. Really starting to wonder if I definitely need them washers or if the o-rings will be fine as a stand alone seal. Dont see them in the diagram above but I would imagine they would slip over the fittings threads....

    Also a note. Summit has Moog outer tie rod ends for $22 each. When I priced them at the auto store they want $46. So at $44 total I think I should go for it so its all new.
    http://www.summitracing.com/search/.../part-type/tie-rod-ends/submodel/gt/year/1986
    #12
  13. Rust Bucket

    Rust Bucket New Member

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    Had a Taurus come into the shop with the same symptoms. New pump and new rack replaced by the owner.

    Pump winning and little steering assist. Fluid level correct with engine running. Shut the engine down and the fluid level rose and pushed out of the resevoir. Turning the steering lock to lock all day long would not fix it either.

    Fixed the problem by appling vacum to the resevoir to remove the air. Problem fixed.

    How did we do that? With an air lift tool for filling radiators. Ford also has a service tool (rotunda#211-265) which does the same thing for use with a mightyvac type pump.
    #13
  14. striker911411

    striker911411 Member

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    Like some air thats stuck and wont come out so you have to make it come out. I been seeing some videos on YT about using vacuum on other cars but I cant find any place that sells a kit. I had a vacuum hand pump for brakes but it broke the first time I used it. Maybe thats what they use but what do they put in the reservoir to make that seal. Better keep looking.
    #14
  15. Rust Bucket

    Rust Bucket New Member

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    The ford tool seals to the reservoir in place of the cap. The tool has o-rings on the out side which seal very well to the inside of the resevoir. It also has a barbed pipe nipple to which you would affix your source of vacum.

    The air lift tool also goes into the fluid reservoir and seals with a rubber insert which expands to form a tight seal. Then shop air is used with the airlift tool to pull a vacum.

    The airlift tool is not meant to be used like that but works. the air lift is about 150.00

    ford tool http://www.ebay.com/itm/OTC-211-265...ols&hash=item2c6e5ec7d8&vxp=mtr#ht_1635wt_986

    airlift tool http://www.ebay.com/itm/Uview-55000..._Automotive_Tools&hash=item35a7e4f439&vxp=mtr
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  16. striker911411

    striker911411 Member

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  17. Rust Bucket

    Rust Bucket New Member

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    Looks like it would work also and priced right.
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  18. striker911411

    striker911411 Member

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    Ya, I passed on it earlier cause it does not say an application or size. Just says it fits "Most". So I just sent off an email to see what they say. Maybe someone will see this that has used it. Its not like we have a bunch of options. Thanks for the help and if I end up getting that one I will report my findings.
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  19. Rust Bucket

    Rust Bucket New Member

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    I'd make sure the top of the cone was quite a bit larger than the opening in the reservoir. If not it may get pulled in by the vacum. Then you've got to figure out how to remove it ,that doesn't seem like fun.

    I'd like to note, this did take a little time to get the air out and two tries.
    #19
  20. jrichker

    jrichker StangNet's favorite TOOL SN Certified Technician Founding Member

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    A rubber stopper and some adapter fittings from Home Depot or Ace hardware could do the same thing much cheaper.

    If you have an air compressor or access to one with a 20 gallon or lager tank, Harbor Freight Tools has a vacuum pump http://www.harborfreight.com/air-vacuum-pump-with-r134a-and-r12-connectors-96677.html for $16 on sale.

    If you're really economical, an old refrigerator hermetic unit works great as a vacuum pump - $20- $40 at used appliance stores, or go to the Dump and get one for free. Be sure to have some R12 compatible oil handy to keep it lubed up properly.
    [​IMG]
    #20

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