Running Lean from 2700 to 3300 on NOSzle It sounds like I have been seeing the exact same conditions you guys have been describing. I just finished installing the NOSzle kit with the 100 shot on my 2000 GT. I had fantastic results in regard to Torque and Power!!! However, as you can see in my attached dyno sheet, I saw a seriously lean condition spike thant starts from about 2700 RPM and lasts to about 3300 RPM. At this point, I am thinking about the following combination to fix the problem. 30lb injectors, 255 in-tank pump, flip chip+tune, up to 125 shot. Any advise from those of you with this combo? Did Holley offer any solution like this?
Hey guys. Going to 30# injectors will not fix your problem, if anything it will make it worse. If you dont have alot of power on motor, or a charger, your car is going to run like sh$t with 30's, or 24's for that matter. And as far as not being able to tune a returnless fuel car, not trying to sound like a a$$, but ive seen it done on a regular basis at the shop here in charlotte. These guys are having no problems tuning 99 and ups. I myself run a nos/nx mix system ( nos solenoids, nx nozzle) and have the stock pump, injectors, etc. and have never had a problem. I would take the car to a reputable dyno shop, and see whats up with the tune. And another thing. Nos is very known to have their jetting reccomendations way on the rich side, as to be on the safe side. I would check on the dyno before I went any futher.
Yeah, you probably right Satan. Had not considered driving the car without nitrous... I talked to the guys at Paul's Automotive Engineering (Cinci, OH) about this. They seem pretty confident that I will be able to work around this with flip chip and some tuning. I'll let you guys know.
Dude, thats exactly what my a/f did, went all the way to 21 off the chart and they shut it down, didn't even try to do a full dyno run and give up. They told me if I keep running it like that it would blow up. I talked to NOS and they said I had my bottle pressure too high (1000-1050) and the pressure should be 900-950 and not over 950. They also sent some different fuel jets to try but I sold the kit. I'm getting a NX wet kit, just ordered it today. I think you'd be able to get the noszle kit tunned its just a pain in the ass chaning all of those little jets.
Hey guys, its me again. 03 steed, I dont know who you talked to at nos, but 1000 psi is not too high for bottle pressure. Between 950 and 1000, or 1050 is not going to make a huge difference. If you have 1300 psi for pressure, then yeah, that can make some lean conditions. 3xblack, I looked at your dyno sheet attachment, and it looks as if your spray came on at around 2500, bogged a little or surged, and then went back up. As your revs went up, your a/f started to get a little richer. Maybe waiting to hit the juice a little later can help with the spike some. Also, did you change your spark plugs to copper plugs. Platinums are no good for nitrous, and you should also gap them down to around 35. Try and keep bottle pressure the same for all your runs also. I always run between 900 and a 1000 psi. If the pressure gets too high you risk running lean, and too low can cause a rich condition. All these problems seems like there is a distribution problem between cylinders. Sorry so long, just trying to help some fellow gear heads out.
Satan, thanks for the input. As you can see from the dyno sheet, it was about 85 degrees in the garage during the pulls. Bottle pressure should have been pretty close to 900, although I don't have a gauge in the cabin. I am running AutoLite Racing spark plugs that are 2 steps colder. Why is copper better for nitrous apps? From what I understand about the problems the returnless fuel system has with this kit, I'm not sure feathering the pedal til 3000 or 3500 will work. Why do you believe there is a problem with cylinder distribution? Thanks!
I was using .010 for fuel and .018 for N20 (125shot) and they sent .012 to try for fuel. Also their new jets are stainless steel instead of brass. Don't know why they changed them but they are alot easier to read the number on the side of the stainless steel ones.
Should have bought a Turbo there cheif The guy that built 3xBlack2000GT car, sugested adding more braided line to the NOS side to help compinsate for this lean spike. Do you guys think this would help it? I really dont know much about NOS, but it sounded kind of like to me.
Here's what I'm wondering. Just how bad is that spike on the engine? From what I understand between 13 to 16 a/f is what will hurt a motor on N20 and anything under or above that will not do any harm. If you look at the graph it can't be running between the 13 to 16 any longer than a nanasecond or so. Is that long enough to even hurt anything??
On his chart, it pegged over 20!!! And this spike lasted for about 800 RPM. Dont matter for how long it does it, the fact that it did, It is a ticking time bomb waiting to happen. We started looking into a Aux. Fuel system to plumb into the NOS fuel side, so that it is not robing the pressure from the fuel rails. Sounds like a good theory, just it is about $500-600 in parts.
Actually the higher numbers on the a/f won't hurt anything because theres not enough fuel to ignite. Seperate fuel system seems like the way to go I guess but a pita.
ok, I spoke to Paul over @ Modular Madness in North Carolina ,he is running the noszle system and getting great results and he is having no problems. He replace his fuel pump for a 03 cobra pump,he them change his fuel lines to a bigger fuel line I belive he went to 6a fuel line ,he also split the fuel line so that the nitrous wouldn'd feed off the rails. I belive these will fix the problems you guys have been talking about,I have the noszle system and has been doing extensive research and I belive this is the best way to deal with the problem,the other way will be a stand alone fuel system for the nitrous but I think the way paul did makes great sense. tell me what you guys think!!
03 steed. I have no idea who told you the high number will not hurt a motor, but that is way wrong. the higher the number, the leaner it is, and we all know what a lean condition on nitrous will get you. As far as not having enough fuel to ignite, well, that is the problem, not having enough fuel. The fuel cools the charge, because the nitrous creates so much heat and cylinder pressure, and without the fuel, you will burn a hole in a piston very quickly. Hellraiser, you cant just change the pump to a 03 cobra setup, you have to change the tank and pump together, because of the way the baffle is in the gt tank. That is one of the best ways to solve the fuel issue, but its also 600 dollars plus in most cases. Also going to -6 fuel line is kinda overkill unless your trying to make alot of horsepower. Not trying to stir no $hit, just trying to help out. Now if its major hp your going after, then I couldnt agree more, but for the general guy who puts a noszle kit on his car, he will most likely put the 100 jets in and call it a day.
Well for me the fuel line been an overkill is not an issue since I have all forged internals DSS SHORT BLOCK ,stage 2 heads ,cams and I will be shooting a 150 to 200 shot of the good juice!!so yes I will be trying to get alot of horsepower,I think it is way better to spend the extra $600.00 ON THE FUEL THAN DOING YOUR COMPLETE MOTOR!! cause of fuel starvation!! According to Paul over @ MODULARMADDNESS.COM he told me I will be able to use the cobra pump with a GT tank with a little modication, he has done it to a few GTs tanks (and has it on his red GT that have run a best 10.6 with a 200 shot of nitrous and the fuel system I have told you guys)he has had no problems.I will be doing all my work in the next week once I am done and get it to the tuner I will let ou guys know!!
