quick starter ?

skunk21

Active Member
May 22, 2007
1,203
2
36
Taxachusetts
I have a paperformance mini and my big fear is it is suffering from heat soak which sucks because my old syle starter suffered from it big time and this is why I switched. I just got it back on the road after a long resto so I never drove it with the new mini in hot weather, well finally hear in MA we are getting some hot and muggy (90*) weather.

when I turn the key on the volt gauge ( auto meter ) goes right up to 14 until I crank it and it draws down to 10v or even 8v and cranks real slow before catching this is on a warm engine.

back ground.. car sits on a trickle charger, battery is new and last I checked was perfect voltage wise with my DVM. I replaced the + & - battery cables with new oem ones ( PO had cheap ones on it) although it does still have the original factory + cable to the starter which didn't look that bad. My buddy has my DVM so I have to now chase him down to get it back so I can do test on the wires. It's easy enough to change the starter cable but I'm really thinking this starter is heat soaked and is going to die. I'm also running around16* of timing, does anyone think backing it off may help? any tips for heat soak? or does it sound like another issue?
 
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If you want to do some cable testing, you can carefully use a jumper cable to parallel an existing cable. If the car magically cranks quickly, look at that cable being paralleled as being deficient.

do you have LT's?
 
I could try that. I'll have to find a long enough heavy gauge cable for the starter which I'm thinking I should change anyway since it is the one I didn't. NO LTs shorty JBA headers with ceramic coating.
 
No Crank checklist for 5.0 Mustangs

Revised 05-Oct-2010 to update Fluke references.

No crank. slow crank and stuck starter solenoid problems have the same root causes – low battery voltage and poor connections. For that reason, they are grouped together.
Use the same initial group of tests to find the root cause of both no crank and stuck solenoid problems.

Since some of the tests will bypass the safety interlocks, make sure that the car is in neutral and the parking brake is set. Becoming a pancake isn’t part of the repair process…


1.) Will the car start if it is jumped? Then clean battery terminals and check battery for low charge and dead cells. A good battery will measure 12-13 volts at full charge with the ignition switch in the Run position but without the engine running.
A voltmeter placed across the battery terminals should show a minimum of 9.5-10 volts when the ignition switch is turned to the Start position and the starter engages or tries to engage. Less than this will result in a clicking solenoid, or slow cranking (if it cranks at all) or a starter solenoid that sticks and welds the contacts together.

Most auto parts stores will check your battery for free. It does not have to be installed in the car to have it checked; you can carry it with you to the auto parts store.

The battery posts and inside of the battery post terminals should be scraped clean with a knife or battery post cleaner tool. This little trick will fix a surprising number of no start problems.

The clamp on with 2 bolts battery terminal ends are a know problem causer. Any place you see green on a copper wire is corrosion. Corrosion gets in the clamped joint and works its way up the wire under the insulation. Corroded connections do not conduct electricity well. Avoid them like the plague...

If the starter solenoid welds the contacts, then the starter will attempt to run anytime there is power in the battery. The cables and solenoid will get very hot, and may even start smoking. The temporary fix for a welded starter solenoid is to disconnect the battery and smack the back of the solenoid housing a sharp blow with a hammer. This may cause the contacts to unstick and work normally for a while.

A voltmeter is handy if you are familiar with how to use it to find bad connections. Measure the voltage drop across a connection while trying to start the car: more than .5 volts across a connection indicates a problem.

See http://assets.fluke.com/appnotes/automotive/beatbook.pdf for help for help troubleshooting voltage drops across connections and components. .

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2.) Check the battery to engine block ground down near the oil filter, and the ground behind the engine to the firewall. All grounds should be clean and shiny. Use some sandpaper to clean them up.

3.) Jump the big terminals on the starter solenoid next to the battery with a screwdriver - watch out for the sparks! If the engine cranks, the starter and power wiring is good. The starter relay is also known as a starter solenoid.

The rest of the tech note only concerns no crank problems. If your problem was a stuck solenoid, go back to step 1.

4.) Then pull the small push on connector (small red/blue wire) off the starter solenoid (Looks like it is stuck on a screw). Then jump between the screw and the terminal that is connected to the battery. If it cranks, the relay is good and your problem is in the rest of the circuit.

5.) Remember to check the ignition switch, neutral safety switch on auto trans and the clutch safety switch on manual trans cars. If they are good, then you have wiring problems.

Typical start circuit...
Diagram courtesy of Tmoss & Stang&2birds
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6.) Pull the starter and take it to AutoZone or Pep Boys and have them test it. Starter fails test, then replace it. If you got this far, the starter is probably bad.


Starter solenoid wiring for 86-91 Mustang
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Starter solenoid wiring 92-93 Mustang or earlier Mustang with upgraded high torque mini starter.
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Electrical checks for the switches and starter solenoid

Remove the small red/blue wire from the starter solenoid. Use a screwdriver to bridge the connection from the battery positive connection on the starter solenoid to the small screw where the red/blue wire was connected. The starter should crank the engine. If it does not, the starter solenoid is defective.

If the starter does crank the engine, the problem is in the clutch safety circuit (5 speed) or Neutral Sense Switch (auto trans) or ignition switch.


Typical start circuit...
Diagram courtesy of Tmoss & Stang&2birds
attachment.php


You will need a voltmeter or test lamp for the rest of the checks. Connect one lead of the voltmeter or test lamp to ground. The other lead will connect to the item under test.
Look for 12 volts on the white/pink wire when the ignition switch is turned to the Start position. Check the ignition switch first.
No 12 volts, replace the ignition switch.

The next step will require you to push the clutch pedal to the floor (5 speed) or put the transmission in neutral (auto trans) while the ignition switch is turned to the Start position.
Good 12 volts, check the clutch safety switch (5 speed) or Neutral Sense Switch (auto trans) for good 12 volts on both sides of the switches. No 12 volts on both sides of the switch and the switches are defective or out of adjustment. Check the wiring for bad connections while you are at it.
 
jrichker thanks for the info. I'm going to do a drop test when I manage to get my DMV back. I'm still thinking heat soak since there really is next to no voltage drop on my gauge when cranking the motor over when the engine is cold. starts right up, when the motor is hot is when my gauge voltage drops a bunch and cranks slow. I was hoping a mini starter would cure my heat soak problem. car runs a perfect 210* even at idle in traffic. I'll have to figure something out if I pass the volatage test, I don't want to keep buying starters. Also my bad forgot to add that it is wrapped with a starter heat shield blanket..good or bad? reflecting heat or keeping in heat? Does the advanced timing increase exhaust temps enough to worry about ?