Randall rack install...

Literal integrity and editing

I am pleased to see the interest and input I am already receiving on this subject. I am sure that I am not the only one who has noticed that the idea of a thread can become confusing to a reader quite quickly when it comes to the idea of digesting large amounts of information. So, if no one minds, I would very much like to edit my previous posts with the information that I either forget or is suggested to me at later times. This will afford us a complete source of information on this discourse so that we may have a final piece relating to the steering systems. To make my point, if your suggestions are integrated, with credit to those who offer them, the final product will be an intelligible work, one which will help individuals make the most informed choice possible.

Between the four choices available in system types; stock power, stock manual, rack power, and rack manual I am convinced all have major advantages and major disadvantages. I think that our best service can be done by integrating all of these ups and downs into one piece at the beginning of the thread.

So if no one has any problem with the idea, I will begin to modify my posts as any missed or new information comes to light.

lastly, the idea of condensing this into a pdf sounds ewcellent to me. At some arbitrary point were this community thinks the subject exhausted, say 12/31/05 ( we have to cut this off somewhere - there will always be new products), i'll be happy to put the final product together and provide it to anyone who asks.

Thanks,

Don
 
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With regard to bookkeeping issues, a single open thread of this kind is probably the least useful as a long term resource. The reason I say this is that too much irrelevant information and posting will inevitably find its way into the thread and eventually make disseminating information from the thread tedious and tiring. And since you are intent on doing this thread "correctly" and maintaining the clear purpose you set out with (for which I commend you), I'd like to suggest a more typical publishing approach to the process. With this in mind, I suggest doing a defintive documentation of your conversion and observations away from this thread, but continue to share all of the information as you acquire it along the way (i.e. research and development). After completing your separate documenation of the conversion, including any appropriately credited outside contributions and/or observations (including this thread as a whole), I suggest offering it up for editing to several folks for input and questions. Upon completing any edits and clarifications, I think a finally PDF would be an excellent way to distribute and share the final work.

Relatedly, I would prefer your original posts stay unedited so as to maintain the integrity and linearity of the process and the thread. Doing otherwise calls into question any contributions that are made and then edited, which also may undermine trust in the free flow of information a thread like this ideally provides.

Make sense?

BTW, can you tell I've spent way too much time doing academic research and writing and documenation and article submission and blah blah blah...?
 
Completed steering column modifications today

Hey just wanted to note a couple of things for you:

1). The instructions don't say anything about the orientation of the flycuts on the steer shaft. This is a little thing, but...If you orient the fly cuts correctly the alignment mark at the steer wheel end will line up correctly with the dot on the steering wheel in the straight ahead position. When I was doing alignments, it was one of the things I would check and correct. In my case the fly cuts ended up being parallel to the indicator mark on the steer shaft. I also only needed to go back 3". Then I welded the collar to the shaft, and spot welded the coupler to the column tube. Used a chop saw for the column tube and for getting the correct length of the steer shaft. What an awesome tool.
Also it is suggested to have a machine shop fly cut the original shaft as this dimension is fairly critical (nneds to fit snuggly in double "D" coupler). If you are careful you can do it yourself. Again, I marked the shaft then used a hack saw. Kept it slightly to the large size and used the fine wheel of the grinder to carefully finish off the cuts. Took about 1/2 hour, and gave me some much needed upper body excersize. :cheers:

2). Picked up all new steer column to firewall seals, and a new turn signal switch as it is much easier to deal with while it's on the bench.

3). To facilitate a quick and easy dissassembly I removed the column then used a hack saw (a Sawsall would have been easier) to cut the shaft off at the box. My old box is in the garbage can. You may be able to get the sector gear cap bolt off, I couldn't. This kept me from having to disconnect the ptiman arm, or drag link, and farting around trying to get the whole box and shaft out as one piece. In fact since I'm replacing the entire front suspension system, I was able to drop the whole thing out, including the sway bar as one assembly. Took a little less than 2 hours, including the column. Then with the old front end out in the driveway I undid the sway bar end links and the tie rods to make everything small enough to fit in the garbage can.

HTH,

Scott
 

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Ok, no editing

It does make it dificult. I already am in the process of keeping a text version on file for future reference. This I will collate and finish into a final product. I still feel the need to add information provided by you and others into the final product as I invariably miss something in the course of writing in the first place.

I need to post another picture at a different resolution in order to get a level of acceptable clarity.

I think 66 runt will finish before I do, especially since he already has the entire kit.

I need to finish my comments on the manual steering setup, which should be now problem as i have yet to recieve all my parts. Currently i am changing the oil pan gasket as it was in sad (prev. owner overtightened cork gasket) shape. This has to be done first unless i want to realign the car after removing the rack at a later date.

Thanks,

Don
 
dbfarr said:
Currently i am changing the oil pan gasket as it was in sad (prev. owner overtightened cork gasket) shape. This has to be done first unless i want to realign the car after removing the rack at a later date.
Get one of those new rubber one-peice units. Best invention since sliced bread!
 
Addendum to Bendix article, and copy attachment

I have written a more fair minded conclusion to the Bendix power steering arguement.

So bearing in mind the complexities, difficulties, expenses, and required level of expertise involved in restoring the Bendix power steering system; you will want to make a decision about how involved you wish to get. The reality is that if you come across re-manufacturer’s who take pride in their work, use the correct (reproductions, or oem and application specific) hoses and are careful in your efforts, you will likely be quite satisfied with the old system. In the best case scenario, you will probably save around 500 dollars over the rack and pinion system. It is a bet though, one which could (like me) cost you a great deal of money and provide unsatisfactory and aggravating results.

I also added several of stanger53's comments.

Thanks

Don
 

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Darkbudda,

1. Measure turning radius before and after conversion, definitively.

Wish i could but pulling the oil pan required the steering linkage to be dropped. I am sure we could get those figures elswhere, the linkage was entirely stock. So maybe some old road and track review would provide us with the before numbers

As far as after, I need to know the method typically used for turning radius measure. Give me this, I will be happy to provide numbers.


2. Cost and convenient sources of replacement parts, including the rack itself (since I've had to replace racks on cars with less than 50k miles).

The rack from Randall's kit is a J-car rack. It is commonly availible, i imagine that Randalls modifications and frame could be transfered to one. Or maybe we should just ask him about repairs on the unit.

3. Measure of radial steering wheel play (giving the steering wheel diameter) before and after conversion.

My wheel is the stock wheel, I have never measured it although I assume it is around 15 inches. The play in the manual system was 2 1/2 inches, though the jury is not out yet on whether the box was any good or not (Argentinian?"

4. Any permanent modifications of any component on the car (including steering column or shafts).

This will all be listed in the final write up

5. Tools necessary for the conversion, including any cutting or welding tools you use.

This will all be listed in the final write up

6. And ultimately, some kind of measured performance improvement (i.e. track or autocross times).

That is just going to have a lot of variables considering the huge number of suspension mods availible.I think we should stay steering system specific, otherwise our data is going to be skewed.

Thanks for everyones patience and encouragement. My last post has some text in progress for the final document.

Also, I really need someone to compare this picture with the one in the last post. Is it clearer?

bracket_underside.jpg
 
dbfarr said:
Ok, so the steering box. Either the Flaming river box has no play in it and my idler arm is cheap garbage or the box does have play in it (either its a bad unit or, no matter what, the saginaw system has play. I have seen article that claim otherwise).

This is an interesting question....I put a FR 16:1 box in my car and depending on the road surface there's play, on others the steering is really tight and responsive, perhaps it's my front suspension wandering? or could I possibly have a bad box?

I was originally going to go r&p but figured that I would try the cheaper alternative. The steering is certainly better than before, but having a car that would have consistently tight steering would be nice.
 
Sounds familliar

With the manual steering setup, my car would often feel more in control at one time than the other as well. I alwasy attributed it to the no-center feeling of the box design. I am hoping the rack corrects this, if it does i'll let you know.

Thanks

Don
 
Okay, well I'm getting ready to install the randalls rack as well. My question now is that I am thinking of changing over to a tilt steering column. Does anyone have any suggestions about which one to go with? I have emailed Randy as well and hope to hear from him this week. Just wondered if anyone else has thought about or already done this.
 
Randall's rack doesn't work with stock clutch linkage

That said, it will not be that hard to fabricate a bracket, and modify the bell crank to make it work for my 6 cylinder. Randy was positive he told me this. I'm sure he did. He's a straight up guy. I must have had selective hearing though, because I was sure not too happy when I went to install the steering column this evening, and the link goes squarely through the area that the clutch linkage would be.

I doubt the bracket I fab up would work on a V8 with headers though. A cable clutch or hydraulic clutch is the ultimate solution in that case.

Moral of the story... close mouth and open ears when speaking with Randy. :rolleyes:

Scott
 
Clutch linkage

I had heard that about the z-bar with stock linkage, ouch. Planning to go to hydraulic when I convert much later down the road.

Btw, I did find a good price on those tie rods (ev 117-moog)@ rockauto.com

Waiting to recieve rack, should be here any day now. Apparently a backorder situation. This is ok since I am struggling with the resurfacing of the steering column; ebayer painted it to conceal rust.

As far as tilt column, don't know what to say. Mine is tilt but has play in u-joint (or whatever it is, feel free to educate me) inside column and is collapsed some; basically junk.
 
Repair of Rack internals - longevity

Spoke with Randy yesterday, says the rack will ship today.

Anyway, a major concern about this product is the long term repair of the unit. I asked Randy about this and he noted that while the housing is heavily modified the internals are still a GM j-rack unit; therefore, any trusted reman service could adequately repair failed internal parts and leaks. Acts of God or stupidity, auto wrecks etc, which damage external parts will require contacting Randy for replacement. Along these lines, he did mention another individual who bent the crossmember and, who upon request, was sold another one on a piece basis.

Thanks,

Don
 
Randall Racks is out of Canada


66Runt said:
It's a personal thing for me.

When you put 20K into updates/upgrades, what's $200.00 when you get quality made in the good old U.S. of A. parts. :flag:

And no, I don't use those cheap rebuild kits. But again, it's a personal thing.

Scott
 
nearly finalized project

Hang in there, I have my photos and lots of comments. Everything went well, just had hangups with some of the other work I took on. Even can describe some pitfalls you are likely to find.

Decided to create premanent archive of write up at Cardomain. As soon as i have time to work on this will continue this post.
Results before alignment are great, hoping for even better results after.

Thanks,

Don
 
Update?

Don - How is your write up coming along? Looking forward to reading it. I'm either doing the TCP or Randals before spring gets here and was hoping to get some good insight from your install. I'm also installing into a Cougar.

Thanks, jim