Road course suspension upgrades?

Okay, how about this: what KIND of road racing are you looking into? Are you going to be running a really close course with an 1/8th mile straight max or are you going to be on a track that will support heavy 3 digit speeds?

If you're going to be hitting 80 to 90+ mph all the time, forget tires, brakes, and suspension mods. Try a bigazz roll cage, a racing seat, and some seat belts first :D.

How often are you going to race? Once a week, month, or year? If you're going to be racing once a year, eh, it's hard to justify the money for dedicated tires, shocks, etc. for racing. Once a month, eh, you should budget more.

Are you going to be racing at the same track? If so, dial it in, figure out what you need, and concentrate on JUST that track.

I'm with everyone else on the engine. My suggestion is to build a drivetrain that will handle 700 hp readily. Build a motor that can handle 500 hp and put a 300 hp cam in it. You don't have time to concentrate on the motor when you're "feeling" the car. Besides, if you're not pushing the motor all the time, it tends to be more consistent in how it performs so it lets you get a feel for the car and not the motor's quirks.

No rear sway bar. You can start with one to get your feet wet, but dump it when you get more comfy.

Do what you can afford with the brakes. Overkill with brakes never hurts. Something to keep in mind, though. You can HAVE power brakes all day long, but if they're hooked up to a radical motor, the point is moot (trust me on this one!). It's all the more reason to run a conservative motor.

I run a PME negative wedge kit, a big front bar, KYB's, frame connectors, underrides (some like 'em, some don't), and hefty leaf springs. Mine's a daily driver so I run progressive rate springs. Again, some like 'em, some don't. Once you get used to a LITTLE dive before you go stiff, you've got it made. I did cringe alot when I first swapped them for #650's, but I'm used to them now, and I appreciate the relatively gentle ride.

Tires? Toyo . . . someone else makes a tire? Yeah, I'm a broken record on tires, but I haven't found anything that, day-in/day-out even touches them.

Figure out first what you want to do and then figure out if you CAN do it. If you REALLY want a dedicated car, let me make a suggestion. Find an old dirt track open-wheel modified car and play with that. They can be had for $1,000 to $2,000 at the end of the season with no motor BUT with a rear end. Put the right shocks/springs on them with a motor and you have a car that's actually built not only to race but also to "play" with. It ain't street legal, but it will do everything you want it to do probalby on a better budget than your pony.
 
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BAD67FUN said:
Thanks for the catch!! I'm leaning towards Baer simply for their racing background and reputation. Not sure if you get that from SSBC. No slam intended.
No slam on me at all, I was thinking the same way. I'd put the Willwoods in the same category as the Baers though. I'd also question having the same size rotors on the front as you have in the rear. You're gonna have to dial those rears OUT a great deal to prevent premature lockup. If you only got 12" on the front then 10s should be fine in the rear. My 97 Cobra has 13s in front and 10s in the rear. That is the combo I really wanted for the 67, maybe 11s in back but no bigger.
 
I'm running the "good ole" Grenada fronts and Lincoln backs. *sigh* I have "power" brakes but my motor doesn't make enough vac to really be much good, so I'm mainly manual. I'd like a little more power for endurance, actually.

In a '65-'66, getting good power 4-wheel discs is a pisser. Everyone concentrates so hard on making brakes that are about 9" in diameter larger than the wheel that they forget about the minor thing . . . like coming up with a GOOD MC/PBB that FITS. Sorry . . . pet peeve of mine.

To me, a combo (mc/pbb) that works and fits is kinda' like that water skier who fell into the nest of Cottonmouths and was killed in a heinous way. Everyone has heard of one, and we all have a second cousin who SWEARS he's seen on, but you never can FIND ONE when you really start to look ;).
 
BAD67FUN said:
I believe it's 1261076 for the front..... TRACK system. But now after looking closer it says that the TRACK system will require 70-73 spindles that they sell for $440!!! Dang. But they do sell a system called the SPORT that will work with the OEM spindles on my 67. It will then be a 12" rotor. Still plenty of brake and now I guess it would match the rotor in the rear. I will talk to them verbally to verify all of this when I order in a month or so. Thanks for the catch!! I'm leaning towards Baer simply for their racing background and reputation. Not sure if you get that from SSBC. No slam intended.

BAD67FUN-- I'm running the 12" Baer conversion on the front of my 68FB, factory power assisted. I think they are GREAT!
 
slapper said:
BAD67FUN-- I'm running the 12" Baer conversion on the front of my 68FB, factory power assisted. I think they are GREAT!

Excellant. It's reassuring to know that someone is happy with the Baer kit. Did you by chance have to convert from drum to disk, such as myself. I'm just curious as to how complete the kit is. (all the little things like nuts and bolt) And how were the instructions... if any? Hmmm, never thought about a problem of the rear disc being the same diameter as the front.. forcing me to dial out. Dang, now I'm all confused. Would it be smarter to convert the spindles in the front over to handle the 13" rotors... and thus keeping the rears at 12"? I could go to the 12" front and then the 11.35" rear? I'm doing this thing once. And because the price difference on the sizes is so minimal, I want to get the most I can for my money. Help!!!
 
BAD67FUN said:
I'm doing this thing once. And because the price difference on the sizes is so minimal, I want to get the most I can for my money. Help!!!
Welcome to my delima :D

I REALLY want 13s up front, I have 17 inch rims and anything smaller will be too wimpy, and like you said the cost delta is small (If you don't need new spindles) between the 12 and 13 inch kits. Right now, through my shopping all I have found is the SSBC kits, it is their top of the line kit and should work fine, but like you I prefer the Baer/Wilwood name. Either way I'm lookin at spending $2.5K for a set of four and don't want to regret it a year later. Because of that I may just stick with my factory power disc setup and put some Galaxy drums in back for a while until I find exactly what I want.
 
BAD67FUN said:
Excellant. It's reassuring to know that someone is happy with the Baer kit. Did you by chance have to convert from drum to disk, such as myself. I'm just curious as to how complete the kit is. (all the little things like nuts and bolt) And how were the instructions... if any? Hmmm, never thought about a problem of the rear disc being the same diameter as the front.. forcing me to dial out. Dang, now I'm all confused. Would it be smarter to convert the spindles in the front over to handle the 13" rotors... and thus keeping the rears at 12"? I could go to the 12" front and then the 11.35" rear? I'm doing this thing once. And because the price difference on the sizes is so minimal, I want to get the most I can for my money. Help!!!

I had installed factory 69 disc prior to the Baer, and the 12" Baer kit requires the drum spindles, (for mounting the Baer caliper), so your spindles will be fine.
I found the kit to be very complete-there's not very much to it-right down to the copper crush washers for the stainless brake line connection at the caliper banjo fitting.
The instructions were included and simple, which included recommended procedures to season the rotors and bed the brakes. the replacement pads are over-the-counter 99 cobra/corvette
After the install, I had to kind off adjust the brake light switch at the pedal, because braking began so early that under calm, casual braking, the pedal was too firm to contact the switch.
P.S.--you'll have to dial down the proportioning valve if you go with the rear disc anyways.
 
I think Red Barchetta has given some sound advice.
IMHO you may want to do an autocross and maybe your first HPDE event (with instructor) before going too wild on the build. This will give YOU a feel for YOUR CAR and how it reacts. That is what will determine how YOU would like YOUR CAR set up. If you copy My setup, Henry's setup, or anyone elses you may find that it does not suit YOUR style. Safety upgrades (tires, brakes, etc) are always a good first move, but aren't absolutley necessary as long as you limit the duty cycle of the parts you have. Chances are a stock power plant would be adequate for your first few times on the track as you learn. Your first few times you probably won't hit triple digit speeds. Be more concerned with learning how to enter and exit a corner without extreme measures (heavy braking, heavy acceleration, heavy steering input, etc). It will take you a while to out pace the car SAFELY. I can't tell you how many azz clowns I've seen come with a car that is race prepared and stuff it in the first turn cuz they felt that by having a built car somehow meant they could drive at the cars level of performance. If you do an autocross or a couple HPDE events you will quickly see what mods would benefit you the most and in what order.
 
Edbert said:
Welcome to my delima :D

I REALLY want 13s up front, I have 17 inch rims and anything smaller will be too wimpy, and like you said the cost delta is small (If you don't need new spindles) between the 12 and 13 inch kits. Right now, through my shopping all I have found is the SSBC kits, it is their top of the line kit and should work fine, but like you I prefer the Baer/Wilwood name. Either way I'm lookin at spending $2.5K for a set of four and don't want to regret it a year later. Because of that I may just stick with my factory power disc setup and put some Galaxy drums in back for a while until I find exactly what I want.

Yeah I don't know. Is there really that much of a difference between the 13" and 12" rotor that I would regret it going 12" up front? I'm waiting to hear back from a friend of mine on his opinion. He's a fulltime autocrosser who has a 91 with 11" on the front and 10.25 on the back. If he comes back and says he's always whining he doesn't have enough brake, then I'll have a tough decision. If he thinks I'll be fine with the 12 up front and 11.37 in the back, that will be my choice. I still have to figure out if it's worth $300 to convert over to a power booster. I suppose I could use the money on that I'd have spent trying get the other spindles.
 
This is going to be a great quality thread. The best I have seen in a while.

Keep in mind my ride is set up for the track and is set up to drive on the "edge". Some of the things I suggest may not be right for the highway but they will work on the highway.

Please put up specific questions and I and others will try to help. Just one word of caution from "Historic".....do not complain about the performance stuff I put up unless you have done the laps.

And always remember that "loose" is fast in the early model Mustang.

HistoricMustang
www.historicmustang.com
 
streetstang67 said:
What street/track tires do you suggest for a 14" rim if I only go to the track a couple times a year?

What about if I got a spare set of (14") rims and had dedicated track tires...what do you suggest for that?


first off, if you can afford a different set of wheels and tires, ditch the 14's and get a decent set of 15x7's. you can a set the black D-hole wheels from superior wheel at places like discount tire, tier rack, etc. for about 45-50 bucks a wheel and then throw a decent set of tires on it and you should be good to go in the wheel dept. tires would be the biggest decision as there are lot's too choose from: toyo, BFG comp t/a's, nitto's all come to mind. tire size would probably 225/50-15 or 225/60-15 or a combo of both with the 50's in front and 60's out back. i would take other's advice and get the best brakes you can afford, if the best brakes you can afford are granada's then so be it. there are companies that make upgraded rotors for stock granada brakes, there is company on ebay that sells slotted rotors for stock replacement granada rotors for about $99 a pair, which would definitely be better on the race course than the stock units.
 
Open Tracking is a straight up blast. Most of the entry level guys run near stock engines with great success. Stock Disks are ok (with stock engine) if you run quality pads and and cooling ducts (probabably get away with out in first few events) I run a 11" kit with PBR calipers (like Baer SS kit) and 3" cooling ducts, i would like to have more brakes and will likely upgrade in the near future. One thing to look at is the thickness of the rotor, I think the Baer Track kit is the only one (big vendors) that has 1 1/4" thick rotors, these are nice big heat sinks.
Go to a Shelby Club event, or NASA, who ever is in your area and check it out.

These old cars can really handle quite well with the normal mods, 620's, shelby drop, swaybar, ect...Don't forget a little added camber to get the front to bite.
 
Okay, I've consulted with my trusted friend and have made my decision. My bud said that the 12" front Baer kit will be more than I'll ever need along with their 11.35 rear kit. He said if need be we could fashion up some air scoops to vent the brakes if I ever get a chance to run Elkhart Lake. So if I can run Elkhart, I can run anywhere, for those that don't know... it's four mile long road course.... fast! I'll likely spend 90% of my time autocrossing anyhow. I think I'm going to keep my 8" rear also. I don't have the cash to put in a 5 speed, so keeping the C4 should help not to abuse the rear too much. And I'll likely never get over 400 hp. Over much debate between the 3.80 and the 3.55, I'm gonna have it rebuilt with the 3.80. I probably won't get to a road course until it has a five speed anyhow so I'm not going worry about running out of gear. And I don't drive it much on the highway at all. I've also decided on the PowerTrax Loc Rite unit. I've read alot of good things on the unit. With these upgrades and what I've listed in my sig, I should be ready to have some serious fun!! Any ideas or suggestions are welcome?
 
I have a 73 mustang convertible and have done a few of the mods that you guys have been discussing here 1" drop 650 springs front, 4.5 leaf springs rear, lincoln rear disk conversion, tremec 5 speed, and subframe connectors. I think my car handles really well except one wired thing. It tends to hop around coners. Is'nt that kinda wierd? Granted the pavement around town here in Lubbock is really rough and crapy.

I really don't get on it too much anymore since I swaped to a 5 speed. I don't mind telling you that going from a automatic to a stick for me means I have to learn how to drive my stang all over again.

I would love to go to a track but there is not one around here. There is an SCCA SOLO group based here in Lubbock and I am going to try to catch up with them the next time they meet. I'm sure it's not the same as going to a track but I bet driving through the cones is still alot of fun. I've looked at their rules to see if I could run at one of their events and there is only one problem with my car. It leaks oil. Its not something that would be easy to fix either (it leaks at the front and rear seals). That's what I get for buying a high volume oil pump I guess. I'm going to see if my girl friend will let me take her Camry. :p
 
I hope its not the shocks. I guess they are nearly 2 years old now but I had hoped the magna shocks I got would last longer than that. Do you think it's bumpsteer? Dang those Bumpsteer kits are expensive.