Discussion in '2007 - 2014 Shelby GT500 Tech' started by chuckdoc, Aug 17, 2006.
Those are off Fordvehicles.com and Saleen.com respectivley.
Is this really even a debate?
Regarding values, of COURSE you get bent-over big time if you sell a niche-specialty vehicle a few years after you buy it....
It's the big picture, the long-haul, that will have the Saleens sitting on-high, far beyond the '07 GT500 values.
As-such, the savvy buyer must balance their wants and needs with their plans for use, and term of use.
But when you start talking collectibility, you've got to wait long enough for that market to be applicable, which is a solid 15-20 years. If you're not willing to keep a car, and keep it nice, for that long, plan on getting smacked in the head (or the bumm) by severe depreciation..
Oh yea, one more thing... I have heard on more than one occasion from people that are chassis engineers that when Ford dropped in the 5.4, the goal for handling was to be able to match a stock mustang GT. They didnt do any extensive redesign on the suspension, so with a 5.4 block that adds substantial wieght the handleing suffers dearly. It seems pretty clear that a Saleen Extreme walks all over the GT500. Now a comparo with a Saleen S281 Supercharged and the GT500 seems a bit more fair, even favoring the GT500, but if you want to go anywhere other than in a straight line, the GT500 seems to suffer. Thats my 2cents, anyone feel free to correct me if I am wrong on any of this.
Well put. You reiterated the point that was made at the beginning of the post in which Saleen definitely seems to have the performance advantage. The market right now is nowhere near as hungry for Saleen vehicles as anything with a Shelby name on it.
I don't know if this will change for the next 15-20 years, but if you are purchasing these vehicles for collectability (a boring option -- buy stocks for that...) the market might dictate that a Steve Saleen vehicle will mean something... right now - not so much.
I'd take the E if I couldn't find a close to MSRP price for the GT500.
Yea, I suppose I am more of a "GO" person than a "SHOW" person. I dont care what name it has on it, if they are the same price i want the one that romps. but each to his own.
I'm thinking about buying a used 281sc LOCATED HERE
But...if you call they say that is tha price after 30% is paid in cash. so total cost they said would be $43,995. WHat do you think?
You might get more input from the Saleen sub-forum, or even a different forum for saleens : Saleen / Roush talk at Mustangforums. This is like any other deal. It might be good (at 33k) or it might not be so good. Can you go look at the car? See if it had problems or a good maintenance history. Most people can expect to take a hit on a 1 or year old vehicle. These lose value once titled, as all cars do. That 10k difference would make it or break it for me, assuming a car with zero issues.
My opinion is that the GT500 will be going for sticker very soon. With the new Boss and other special edition Mustangs coming as well as the new engine, the GT500 will not have even close to the same demand it has today. I am waiting to see what changes are made to the 2008 and will either try to get a Boss or GT500 later in 2007. For the same price, I would take the Saleen.
This is more along the lines of the GT500 price thread, but take it along these terms. When news of the GT500 came out 2 years ago, it was a big thing. In many ways it struck a chord with mustang fans all over the place: Shelby returning to Ford, Authentic American Muscle, Tradition, etc....
That stock is about played out, give it 8 months. Meanwhile Saleen has done the same formula since the late 80's. There's nothing new about the Extreme... No play on tradition or name-recognition. It stands on the motto of Saleen itself: Power in the hands of a few. It's rare, it's on the bleeding edge of what a 4.6 mod can do. I think the Extreme will always be a good bet with niche Saleen fans, and for it's hand-built and prepared glory, has a leg up on the less-than-limited GT500 run.
One thing's for sure, you can't put a KB on the Saleen and get those Shelby numbers!
I agree with Chuckdoc. Also, as a collector, I would put my money heavily on the current generation of Saleen products being more valuable and more coveted than the GT500 30 years from now..
We've discussed this on other threads. If you really think about it, and if you know your car history, the Saleen Mustangs are MORE LIKE the original 65-70 Shelbys in provenence, rarity, execution, separation in styling, than the damn new Shelby is.
Steve Saleen, ex-race driver turned car builder, taking Mustangs from Ford and modifying them, and then selling them as new cars through specified Ford dealers. They are numbered, serialized, and relatively rare. They are also very-much visually modified and separated from the regular Mustang line both inside and out. Multiple product lines offering different levels of price/performance. And an uber-expensive halo car in the S7 which is a winning race car.
Kind a sounds a bit like what Carroll Shelby did in the 60's, doesn't it??
The new GT500 is a Shelby-badged SVT product sold at all Ford dealers. Other than the nose and the wheels, it really doesn't have that much going on visually to set it apart from a GT. Yes, you could argue that the 68-70 Shelbys were pretty much Ford products, but AT LEAST they still carried that extremely unique bodywork, especially 69-70, where they stood on their own and could not be mistaken for being "just a Mustang with stripes".
I think that Shelby is a legend and an icon, and that values for the 1965-1970 cars will always be stratospheric as a result.
I think that Saleen is not near the legend or icon, but that his CARS made a bigger statement than Shelby's did in the '60's. Saleens Mustangs won more championships, and Saleens Mustangs carried the same panache in their day as the '60's Shelby Mustangs did, if not more.. (Shelby never built totally NASTY stuff like the supercharged S351's or the Extremes, at least not any more than on a onesy-twosy basis for himself and close friends...)
Down the road, Shelby will be the legend, his Mustangs from the 60's will be as well. But in the world of MODERN 3rd-4th-5th gen Mustangs, the Saleens will occupy the top rung...
And yes, with the 5.4, the GT500 does have the "potential" to be nasty-fast with mods. At the end of the day, that doesn't really carry the entire collectible story... The 1968 GT500KR was typically loaded-up, option-laden, and not as fast as a cheaper stripped-down 68 1/2 GT 428CJ. But put those two cars on the option block, and you'll quickly see that faster doesn't mean more valuable.
Late to the party, but the price is off. The coupe starts at $74,541 with NO options. I was looking at two before purchasing the Shelby, one stickered $79k and the other $81k
Sweet cars, but under all of that it's still a 3V Mustang. For those who have the $ to spend it's a great package, the suspension, power, diff and brakes, etc.
The mindset of most Mustang guys seems to be 'screw Saleen/Steeda/Roush, etc.' I'll spend less and do it myself and end up with a faster car.
Taking a GT500 at MSRP, with some bolt ons it will easily out HP the Saleen, as the potential for a 4v 5.4 is far greater than a 3V 4.6. Suspension mods and all that, it can easily pass the Extreme, extra weight or not.
So it's basically if you want the looks and the exclusiveness of the Saleen, then go for it.
Stock for stock I'm sure it would outrun the Shelby. But how many Mustang 'enthusiasts' even have the word 'stock' in their vocabulary?
That 74K also includes the nearly 3K gas guzzler tax so that isnt really something you can blame on saleen.
Honestly imo if you are considering a Saleen SC at 60K you would be a crazy not to pony up the extra 10K and get the E at around 70K. You get a better looks, a built motor with almost 100hp more, better trans, better brakes, and a more rare car.
My dad is looking at the Roush Stage III, Saleen E, and Shelby. If you could get the Shelby for sticker its the best car for the $$ by far. But at 60-65K with markups the Saleen E imo becomes the best value of the two.
The Roush is ok, the body really doesnt do much for me. My dad likes the look of the black jack edition they had at Brandon Ford we saw on vacation a few weeks ago. if I where to go the Roush route I would get a black 427 R with black side stripes if possibe. The base 427R is also 45K so its a fair price imo.
If it where me buying the car at 70K for the E, 50K for the Roush, and 60K for the SHelby I would get the Extreme no doubt about it. Ill take mine in alloy or black.
I agree with you within the contexts you specified, and I too dislike the Roush styling. It's clumsy, haphazard, goofy-old-man-disease in places, and just not a well-integrated package from a styling standpoint. Everytime I see one, it screams "somethings not right" from several different areas, most notably the lower front valance and that awful rear spoiler.
Funny though, the word "value" used in concert with ANY of the above-mentioned cars is a huge stretch!!! At those prices for solid-axle Mustangs, the "value" signs are clearly hanging up over at the Chevy dealer...
Let's face it, and be honest.... Nobody is buying these Mustangs for "value", there are other stronger forces at play..., exclusivity, brand-loyalty, legend-loyalty, cool-factor, and maybe a few more practical forces like rear seats and ingress/egress...