Engine Stroking My 302 To A 347, General Questions.

Discussion in 'Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech' started by James.Little, Nov 13, 2013.


  1. clement

    clement Founding Member

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    the problem is that it is too easy to make 500rwhp. i had a stock 302 shortblock with a top end and vortech that made 540 at the tires in '96. the issue is that a stock 302 block is a ticking time bomb at that level. and you can still use your pcm too. just have sct burn a chip for it.

    if you are serious about making 500rwhp on motor, a 4" stroke windsor is a good way to go. but you are going to have to run a super victor type intake that is converted to efi for it to run the low 10s that they are capable of naturally aspirated.
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2013
    #21
  2. James.Little

    James.Little Member

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    Okay, so I am dead set on rebuilding a 351w and stroking it out. I know I said I want a 427, but is that the best option considering I just want powerful pony? I mean, this is not a drag car, it will most likely turn from my daily driver to my fun weekend car. I do want 500hp naturally aspirated, why? why not. I found a website that sells stroker kits and they have a break down of what each stroker kit should be used for, it talks about how it will be very bottom-end heavy (the 427), is that something I want? What should I be looking for in picking out a kit? My thinking is I want to get to high RPMs as quick as possible, but I could be wrong. Any thoughts on this subject? Also, how much is too much money for an old 351w, is there anything I should look for before just buying an old 351, or does it mater since I am going to rebuild it anyway?

    Thanks!

    Source: http://www.coasthigh.com/Ford-351-Windsor-based-engine-kits-s/1306.htm
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2013
    #22
  3. MikeH686

    MikeH686 Mine is only two inches though.

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    Find a roller 351 block on craigslist they pop up every now and then for 300you bucks thats where i got mine i plan on staying 383 though 408-427 is cool but your starting to get into thin walls
    #23
  4. James.Little

    James.Little Member

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    $300! I was thinking twice that, I am glad to hear this!
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  5. clement

    clement Founding Member

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    you do realize you have to have a well prepped track, a decent suspension and tires (it also took a 10" wheel with 28-10 MT slicks to hook up my buddies all motor 408) to hook a 500rwhp NA combo, right? if you are going to use a stock block do yourself a favor run a 4.0" stroke (408-410) instead of the 4.1 (418-420) or 4.17 (427) to keep the cap chatter to a minimum.
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2013
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  6. James.Little

    James.Little Member

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    Yes, I am currently working on the suspension as we speak. This is going to obviously going to be a multi-year project, but I would like to get started with the nitty and gritty.
    #26
  7. James.Little

    James.Little Member

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    So instead of a running a 427, run about a 410. What the hell is cap chatter?
    #27
  8. clement

    clement Founding Member

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    also referred to as main cap walk. its what cracks blocks
    #28
  9. James.Little

    James.Little Member

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    So, help me understand engine displacement, is it true the larger the displacement the more power? That is what someone told me sometime ago, I am starting to believe that may be untrue. Also, what about compression, as I mention earlier, I might want to toss in a power adder, still unsure at this point, I know I want a low compression if I plan on adding a power adder, but what if I setup the engine for a power adder and never add one, how much am I hurting my potential performance?

    How much out of an old engine can I reuse? Should I replace the valve heads or is that something I should purchase new?
    Also, how do you feel about a 418? Is that still pushing my limits on the block?

    Thanks for all the information, you are a big help to all of my stupid questions!
    #29
  10. 84Ttop

    84Ttop They make new pistons every day, so why worry? SN Certified Technician Mod Dude

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    I would like to see a 4.0" stroke crank in a stock block preferably 69-70 casting of which i would only pay about 150$ for. This will leave you with a 408. I would also like to see compression around 9.5:1 since you will consider a power adder later on down the road. A nice set of aluminum head are a must and some 205 cnc TFS heads would be my recommendation. I would also like to see a custom cam but that would require you to have nailed down some of the other things like cubic in, cylinder heads, intake, rear gearing, trans etc etc first. Also consider the power adder as this will significantly play into cam selection. Another note, consider going hydraulic roller as far as the valve train goes and just use the retrofit lifters as compared to finding a newer roller 351 block that are known for casting flaws.
    #30
  11. jpope417

    jpope417 Member

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    Check out my profile and parts list wyou can also look at all the pics to see I'm not making s$!t up. A lot of people on forums just repeat what they have read claim crazy hp and have a stick car with no pics or proof of their build. 500 hp in a sbf foxbody is easy to get and with the proper cam selection you can keep the street ability but for that HP you need to upgrade you block. I went with a Dart SHP sbf. If your looking for a 347 I suggest you bore it over and stroke it to get to the 347. If you just stroke it to a 347 the piston skirts slightly come down to far for long engine life. Stoke to a 331 length and then bore to get your 347 cubes. My car has 3.73 rear end gears and a 2750 stall for nice daily driving and she puts down just under 500tq and just over 500hp. What makes or breaks a car for daily driving is the cam, once you get to a certain style with lots of over lap and duration you need to go with a higher stall 3300+ and lower gears like 4.10's or if you have a t-5 just going to the 4.10s. I could get another 50ish hp from a really lumpy cam like in the 540's but I'll stick with my 513/513 and be able to cruise in traffic. Any questions email me man.
    #31
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  12. 84Ttop

    84Ttop They make new pistons every day, so why worry? SN Certified Technician Mod Dude

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    I'm hoping that wasn't a poke at me?
    #32
  13. clement

    clement Founding Member

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    I like 347s. the last one I played with ran hard. 6.40s@105 on the motor at 2900lbs in the 1/8th. the 408 im messing with now is about a tenth quicker and 3 mph faster in the 1/8th and about a tenth quicker in the 60'. the 347 is much easier to get to hook. but....if its a street car the cubes make it easier to run hard and with a Windsor you can use a $50 block. I can tell you that after a season the cap chatter of the 71 302 block was more than horrible. 4 years later its still kicking, but its only a matter of time until it splits the block. and you have to rev the **** out of them to make them haul ass, but they can run damn close to a big Windsor. but an expensive block is highly recommended.
    #33
  14. jpope417

    jpope417 Member

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    Not at all bro, didn't every read your post till after you wrote you post. I know the dangers of full stoke in a 363 and wanted to forewarn this member and if I was poking at all it would be at the member talking about a stock sbf Mexican block being able to handle a 1000 hp block.
    #34
  15. liljoe07

    liljoe07 Active Member

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    Are you talking about Cam lift here? Because basing drivability on cam lift is way off.
    #35
  16. 84Ttop

    84Ttop They make new pistons every day, so why worry? SN Certified Technician Mod Dude

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    No worries, I know exactly where you are coming from!
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  17. jpope417

    jpope417 Member

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    Jesus every one is a master ford tech!
    Dude cam lift and duration is exactly what you base drivability off of
    Yes I was talking About in my car with my set up specify. You can go to my pics and see my cam card. With my current set up with a 513/513 cam with 3.73 and 2750 stall awesome set up. I have 11.4:1 compression, cp pistons afr 185 in a dart block scat bottoms end ect. If I went to a big cam like I said 540+ I would have to go to a bigger stall and higher gears to get it on the power and not stumble in the low RPMs. And a car with a 4000rpm stall and 410's is fun but not a nice street driver.
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2013
    #37
  18. liljoe07

    liljoe07 Active Member

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    I commented on the fact that you mentioned Lift only. Duration has way more of an effect on drivablility than just cam lift, and its been that way for years. My current cam is .585 and I daily drive it. You can have a low lift cam, with long durations and still make the drivability terrible. Im just pointing out that thinking that more valve lift will hurt drivability is false. Generally speaking, there is no downside to more lift. Where as more duration requires more compression, converter and rear gears. And when people refer to guys having too much cam, its always based off the duration.

    My current 347 has 10.8 compression, scat bottom end and a .600 lift cam. It will be street driven as well. Your engine puts down good numbers, no doubt about that. Id be willing to bet, any cam most of the more well known designers would design in your case, would have more lift. No need to get defensive, it wasnt a jab at you at all.
    #38
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  19. 84Ttop

    84Ttop They make new pistons every day, so why worry? SN Certified Technician Mod Dude

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    For the record, before we crashed the crap out of my car at the track it had incredible street manners . lift was over 700 and duration @.050 was over 280. Just because it has a lot of duration and or lift doesn't make it un streetable, it just means the rest of the components need to be right and the tune spot on. This thing idled and drove like a Buick lesabre, lol
    #39
  20. clement

    clement Founding Member

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    good point. thread is useless without pics!

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    and here is a photo of the clevor from Friday night.....

    http://texaspic.net/p392227455/h265F88F5?fb_action_ids=550563375037795&fb_action_types=og.likes&fb_source=other_multiline&action_object_map={"550563375037795":162187003991109}&action_type_map={"550563375037795":"og.likes"}&action_ref_map=[]#h265f88f5
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2013
    #40

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