sub $20k V8 rumor strikes again

Discussion in '2005 - 2009 Specific Tech' started by 66Satellite, Feb 9, 2004.


  1. 66Satellite

    66Satellite Banned

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    Yep--if this strategy worked then, why couldn't it work now? I'm convinced that most people decide how much they want to spend before they decide what car they want to spend it on. In other words a guy who is going to spend $25k+ on a car isn't even gonna look at sub $20k cars. This sub $20k V8 car will appeal to us guys who wouldn't buy a V6 car and who might otherwise wait to buy used. I don't think it would draw significantly from the sales of the $25k+ GTs. So basically, with this strategy Ford sells more cars.
    #61
  2. mp67

    mp67 Founding Member

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    But there were two lx models. A coupe and a hardtop. I did not even check the prices on the coupe. The hardtop could be optioned with the GT interior(otherwise it got the standard square low back biscuit seats), and it could be optioned with ac, power windows, locks etcc. That put sticker just a few thousand below GT. When optioned that way the difference between it and GT was wheels and appearance stuff. When stripped down the LX hardtop was considerably cheaper. My post did give a scenario on stripping down the modern GT to make it cheaper, so I'm not disagreeing with you. When I quote sticker price, I am comparing GT loaded to LX loaded. I can't speak for the coupes back then cause I did not consider it. Did not like the notchback look.
    But my main point is that you can't just stick a V8 in an otherwise V6 or 4 car. Also I would guess the base price on an lx back then at 10,500 was a 4 banger base price. The GT did sticker for 16,500 on mine, but base price was much lower. If you took out power windows and locks and AC, which they did in alot of cars destined to be sold in the northern states, then you could have a GT for cheaper as well.
    #62
  3. BZ's_03_SVT

    BZ's_03_SVT New Member

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    Ok....let me ask this then....How soon after the Fox body came out did it split into the LX and GT models? (i was 8 then) maybe in a few years we might see it....Also, are the same thinkers working at Ford now that did 20 years ago? Obviously ford has gone a different route since 93...they Produce GT's and you can upgrade to Premium package's, Mach 1's, Bullitt's, Cobra's, ect.

    They have just developed this new Stang, bringing the V6 up to early GT specs (HP and Torque) and bringing the GT up to early Cobra specs. Where is the middle for a LX style car?

    IMO....Delete the hell out of a new GT to bring the price down. Best your gonna get, cause Ford is Heading a different direction with its car lines.
    #63
  4. mp67

    mp67 Founding Member

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    Well, the fox body came out in 79. They had the hardtop and coupe either then, or shortly after. I think the GT returned in 83, with a wopping 157hp two barrel engine. That was the early stages of what would become the 225hp GT best bang for the buck car. Plus, the after market became and still is huge for those cars since they mass produced them for so long. They also had a glx model in there for a while.I think in 85 to 86 they offered T-tops for a year or two. I think the LX v8 hardtop and coupe were born around the mid 80's. I was in Germany in 87 and a seargent in my battery had a V8 LX. Before that, LX meant base 4 banger car. I know they had the 4 banger coupe in 79 cause I had a girlfriend with one. Some of this is a little fuzzy, cause I am old. :D

    But I agree with you on getting the price down. Just delete leather, power windows, locks, seats, and mirrors. Downgrade the wheels, and either delete stereo or seriously downgrade it and you have a low budget muscle car, that will be lighter as well without all those heavy options.
    #64
  5. Routs

    Routs Member

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    Let's assume for a second that Ford is going to make a 2005 V8 LX for under $20,000 US. For them to send out any more official information at this point would be absolute murder to their current Mustang sales. I know that the current Mustangs have already been affected by the new Mustang making the tour, but by telling people they will be able to get a more powerful version (albeit, less comfortable) for $5000 less in only 6 months would be the final nail in the 2004 sales coffin.

    If this model does come to fruition (and I am one who does hope it does), I do not believe Ford will tell us exact pricing until a few months to delievery. It just does not make sound business sense to do so.

    If it is a mistake, then why would they run out and correct it immediately? It is serving a wonderful purpose right now. It's getting us to talk about and speculate on a product that will not be available for sale for about six months for free. What more could a marketing department ask for???
    #65
  6. Trick95

    Trick95 Founding Member

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    Well, I don't know if I believe it or not even after hearing it in that video, but it's a great idea. I like the new style, but never once considered buying one until now.

    V8 for 20,000 would be awesome!
    #66
  7. shatner saves

    shatner saves New Member

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    The only reason you might see a $20k v8 mustang is if sales of the GT (and V6 for that matter) really started to slump. It makes no sense to tie up production volume building a car with less content and selling it for less money when you can spend more to make more.

    Does anyone have a confirmed date on when official pricing will be announced?
    #67
  8. 66Satellite

    66Satellite Banned

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    Then why even build V6 cars? Why not just build GTs loaded with every option? I'm sure Ford would make just as much off a $17k V6 car as they would off a $20k V8 car.
    #68
  9. Stangston

    Stangston Member

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    Why settle for an LX type Mustang when you can get a GT under $20,000? Simple. Wait a year, buy it used. We've waited years for this all-new Mustang; waiting another year is not going to kill you. You can see all the criticism from everyone to see if it's a good car or if it has bugs over the year, and then you have your under $20k GT. The extra year of anticipation will make you love it even more.
    #69
  10. Ray III

    Ray III New Member

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    Just to clear things up about the 87-93 Mustangs, they were available in the following models:

    LX hatchback, coupe, convertible (2.3L 4banger)
    LX Sport hatchback, coupe, convertible (5.0L)
    GT hatchback or convertible

    The LX models were nearly identical from the outside regardless of the motor with the exception of straight pipe polished stainless steel dual exhaust, "5.0" fender badges, a "Check Oil" light opposite the "Check Engine" light below the tach, and possibly different rims.
    #70
  11. shatner saves

    shatner saves New Member

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    Different kind of customer. And the added volumes of the v6 help to keep production costs for the whole line down. You could also look at it as something of a loss leader. A cutomer buys a v6 car because that's all they can afford and comes back a few years later and buys a GT. Why not? And I would imagine even a v6 car would eclipse $20k with a few options tacked on.

    Don't get me wrong. I would love to see a V8 for under 20k. I just don't see it happening any time soon. If I'm wrong, the mistake will make me very happy.
    #71
  12. DPA

    DPA New Member

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    #72
  13. (&)

    (&) Founding Member

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    I was going to correct about a dozen errors in mp67's post but I'm still trying to figure out what a Mustang hardtop is. :shrug:
    #73
  14. 1992 2.3LX

    1992 2.3LX New Member

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    well actually it's not in a companies best intrest for a company executives to go spouting off untrue statements. yeah it might have us talking now, but if it turns out to be false and they didn't correct it. think how we will be talking afterwards. let alone legal stipulations against that! you just can't make things up about a product then renig on them without consequences.

    Look at all the crap Mazda got into over Horsepower specs on the RX-8. it's not worth it! especially on a car that they can garuntee is going to sell like a champ anyway!
    #74
  15. 63_Fairlane

    63_Fairlane Founding Member

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    They guy said the car would start under $20K. He meant the base car in other words the V6. Anything else you may have heard was probably wishful thinking.

    As for a stripped model, the current trend of offering option packages as opposed to individual options will make it difficult to get a stripped car. Add in the initial dealer markup due to demand and there is no way this car is going out the door for less than $26K which I believe have been quoted for the GT base price.

    If you assume that the base GT will not have leather and that all cars will come with a basic non-deletable accessory package including cd stereo, power windows, and locks, you are not going to be able to undercut that amount by much.

    If you compare this to the 87-93 LX/GT models, there are no serious body components to remove and most of the "options" are actually stardard equipment. The only savings would be through deleting the spoiler, fog lights, larger wheels and badging. The wheels could knock a grand or so off the bill but then you will probably have to loose the larger brakes. So I doubt that they would go that route.
    #75
  16. 1992 2.3LX

    1992 2.3LX New Member

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    Clearly you did not watch the video. and if you did you did not listen carefully!

    At precisely 53 seconds into the video MR Mays say and i quote "200 or 300 Horsepower BOTH starting under twenty grand"
    #76
  17. shatner saves

    shatner saves New Member

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    Yea. I remember watching that on MSN autos a month ago and I still think the guy was smoking crack.

    If the current V8 mustang base price is around $24k, someone explain to me exactly what it is that ford did to add 40 hp, bigger brakes, stiffer chassis AND take $4k out of the price?

    Crack is Wack. :D
    Winners don't do drugs. :nonono:
    This thread is getting almost as tired as the IRS/live axle threads. :rolleyes:
    #77
  18. Xaranthu

    Xaranthu Founding Member

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    I'm going to try to contribute to this thread without writing a 6 page white paper. The first thing I would mention is out of the box thinking does not seem to be a trend in this thread by many who have posted. Nor is realistic or deductive reasoning using the past, current trends, and the nuances of manufacturing on a billion dollar scale, but this is all just in fun right? I am not pretending to be an expert, just thinking it through a bit and here is what I have come up with.

    First an foremost, I'm a proponent for the 20K V8. It embodies what the Mustang was all about in the 60's - a car that could be optioned any way you wanted with nearly any combination of amenities offered over the entire model line. When thinking about ways of making this 20K V8 a reality, so many factors are being left out it's mind boggling.

    Just to touch on a few; what is the real cost /profit of the BASE model Mustang? - What is more costly to FORD - manual windows and door locks in a few hundred special order cars to lower the price or having every car come off the line with THE SAME options? - Wheel options - appearance (the wing and bumper treatments that don't really cost Ford more, just the consumer) - There are three options for the V6 and two for the GT. What's the price difference between the "V6" and the V6 Deluxe & what’s Fords real cost on this “package“? - And the biggest part of this equation; the sheer volume of these parts produced by Ford. You see a few hundred dollars, but Ford saves or spends millions for these "options" over the span of 200K + unit year (for good sales years of course)

    The V6 is an 18.5K+ car @ the Deluxe option level MSRP. What makes the motor, drive train, suspension and the few appearance parts of the GT entry level package (built on the V6 Deluxe) cost NINE THOUSAND DOLLARS? I'll tell you right now it is, for the most part, pure profit. That's why a car that has only sold 20-30K Units (GT coupe) or less for years is still around. The V6 takes care of making the car viable and pays the bills, selling 2 times the units (in 2000 it did better by outselling the GT almost 4 to 1) and the GT makes the gravy.

    So break down the GT parts in aftermarket prices and take about 20% off for a price still far more than what ford would pay. What do you have? 5K worth of stuff?
    NO! You have about 5K worth of stuff for one car. Now buy 50K of them and how much do you think it will cost... in fact, keeping with current unit trends, buy 30K for the GT and another 40 to 60K for the $20K "wish upon a star" V8 that will more than likely sell instead of V6‘s. Now you are making 70 to 90K of these drive trains/suspension packages. Wow - 2K cost out the door now? Maybe, but you are going to order this every year for the next 5 to 10 years with only minor changes. Isn't that worth a discount? SURE! - Now… make the stuff instead of buying it… Ha-ha!

    Even without that multi year manufacturing in the equation lets go with 2K cost per unit; so a 2K wholesale cost to Ford for this drivetrain, suspension with NO GT appearance parts and the 17" V6 wheel option if there is one, you have a car that will make as much profit as the V6 without even trying to get more money for that GT driveline. If the entry level V6 - the third V6 option that is not available in the GT line, is 17,995, you get a 19,995 tag on a V8 equipped BASE model Mustang.

    So I personally can see how it can be done, but will it? only time will tell. But if it DOES happen I will buy one, if it does not happen I will NOT buy an 05 - so there is a market Ford could OWN if they make this move.

    As for the Fox Body GT/LX question - go buy some books on Mustangs. Even with the minor errors the authors tend to make, you can learn a lot of interesting info.

    Not including the verts (83+), the Fox came in 2 flavors, hatch and coupe.
    There were 5 engine options for the 79 model year. I'm not going to list them. The two top were a 140 HP 5.0 and the Turbo Charged 2.3L @ 132HP. The V8 sounded great but the turbo 4 was the fastest of the lot until you modded your 5.0. The top performance cars were denoted with the COBRA name from 79 to 81; sold as a package for $542 (The cobra name continued to be used in Canada for marketing). I'm just writing basic info here so don't bother bench racing me or questioning the info or I'll smack you with my SVO. :p

    It got worse: In 80 the 4.2 dog came out @ 119 HP, the 5.0 was dropped. So the Turbo took over top dog spot for 80. In 81 someone bumped there head and dropped the turbo and kept the 4.2 as the top of the line model. The 2.3T was still available as the Cobra option package, but published sales numbers from the sources I'm using to check my facts don't reflect it. The 4.2 was rated at a whopping 120HP. There was just the stirrings of talk at Ford to drop the Mustang and close Dearborn towards the end of this year (JUST TALK). It would get serious later, but I'm getting way off the point - In 82 the name GLX was used for the top models and the Cobra option was dropped. The GT made it's debut in Fox form in 83 in the form of a Turbo GT and the 5.0 HO GT.

    All high performance models 5.0 and Turbos with the exception of the SVO were labeled "GT". No Turbo GT's were made past 84 and Mustangs dropped the use of the turbo lima when the SVO was removed from the lineup at the end of 86. From what I have read, the LX was available from 87 and up. The 5.0 could be had in any model, vert, coupe and "fastback" hatch without the cost of the GT appearance package. I don't have broken down sales figures that split up model to engine config but I can tell ya the LX did real well with down to the ground performance enthusiasts.

    If you think about it, Ford is not just drawing form the 60's to go back to the Total Performance expression Mustang used to represent, they may be pulling from 80's marketing too.

    Well, my pain pill has worn off so it's back to being my non-talkative self...

    Z.
    #78
  19. i4power

    i4power Founding Member

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    Xaranthu, you are the smartest person on this site.
    #79
  20. mp67

    mp67 Founding Member

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    Its a hatchback. Someone called it hardtop in an earlier post and I just stuck with it. Alot of used car dealers call them hardtops as well. Go ahead and correct the dozen errors, cause I want to see it. If you read my post, it was a generalization from memory. My point was not to give exact specifications on every year, every model, right down to the paint codes.
    #80

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